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Old August 3rd, 2015, 03:34 PM   #21
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May I forward the examples of fighting on what is now the Af-Pak region and Afghanistan in mid 19th century?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War
First Afghan War - Battle of Kabul and Retreat to Gandamak
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 03:47 PM   #22

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Originally Posted by Menshevik View Post
What Europeans don't you consider white?
Yeah, I wanna find out too...

ps. I just thought does the british empire being denied afghanistan in the 19th century count?
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 03:54 PM   #23

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Originally Posted by PaKeeza View Post
May I forward the examples of fighting on what is now the Af-Pak region and Afghanistan in mid 19th century?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War
First Afghan War - Battle of Kabul and Retreat to Gandamak
I rather expected someone to nominate that one. The trouble with almost all actions on the Indian sub-continent had just a small number of "White" British troops and a majority sepoy.
Elphinstone's column started out with 690 British and 3810 Sepoy troops and 12,000 civilians, families and camp followers--so it doesn't really meet the OP specs.
There are hundreds of skirmishes, small and even medium size battles where British troops were bested by "natives", but it is hard to think of any that were both mainly "White" troops and in any way decisive from 1783 to 2012 Britain lost many battles, but never lost a war.
One that does come to mind is the Benin Massacre, but that Benin victory was rewarded by the total destruction of their capital, their culture and their nation within the year.
Still in West Africa the Ashanti inflicted two or three serious defeats on the British in the 1820s, but again lost in the end and again there were substantial native levies participating.

Last edited by Ancientgeezer; August 3rd, 2015 at 03:56 PM.
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 03:56 PM   #24
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LOL Crusader armies won way more battles than lost and out numbered most of the time at that, buuut they end up losing the Crusades because they started to fight each other back in Europe
I wish someone could mention ethnicity in a thread title without the thread becoming a 50-shades-of-brown-themed dick-measuring contest.

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ps. I just thought does the british empire being denied afghanistan in the 19th century count?
Certain battles like Maiwand could qualify, but ultimately Afghans lost those wars.

Last edited by Domhnall Balloch; August 3rd, 2015 at 04:01 PM.
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 03:56 PM   #25
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Khalid ibn al-Walid's invasions of the Eastern Roman Empire.



As much as Afrocentrists like to say Hannibal (and everyone else) was black, most of the Carthaginian leadership was white. Or 'olive.'
There was likely no much "racial" difference in Hannibal and Khalid ibn al Walid, i don't know if middle easterns and north africans are white or non-white for the topic starter's taste.
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 04:03 PM   #26

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Depends what you consider white; for example, in a more formal sense, middle Easterners are usually considered Caucasian, but usually aren't though of as white. If you take the Caucasian definition as meaning white, then it removes a pretty large number of them. If you just mean in skin tone, it is still hard to say. It is considerably difficult because the idea of race is a pretty recent development.
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 04:26 PM   #27

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The OP stated what he meant by white.
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 05:01 PM   #28

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The OP stated what he meant by white.
When he says not including Muslims, I assume he doesn't include pre-Muslim middle Easterners like the Parthians?
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 05:08 PM   #29

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Originally Posted by Jeff UMN View Post
When he says not including Muslims, I assume he doesn't include pre-Muslim middle Easterners like the Parthians?
I said that White people are those who are Europeans or of European descent; this excludes ethnic groups and peoples such as the Parthians.
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 05:38 PM   #30

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Originally Posted by Domhnall Balloch View Post
As much as Afrocentrists like to say Hannibal (and everyone else) was black, most of the Carthaginian leadership was white. Or 'olive.'

Carthage was Semitic. Take that as you will.

Perceptions back in Antiquity would have been fundamentally different than today. I'm not an anthropologist, but I imagine the concept of 'white' and 'colored' people would have been similarly different.

As per the OP, I guess they could be called non-white.

Last edited by jdghgh; August 3rd, 2015 at 05:40 PM.
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