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Old August 31st, 2015, 12:33 PM   #51

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Really? I have NEVER seen anyone overate the Sherman.

Mostly I see grudging acknowledgements that it pretty much stank.

Who has ever thought the Sherman was a great tank?
I've been on other forums where people try to claim it outclasses every other tank in WW2 for areas it doesn't actually meet.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Sherman tank for the niche it was designed to fill. It was very adaptable, able to be produced in sufficient numbers to supply the needs of our allies and our armed forces in all theaters, effective in most combat situations while being fairly reliable on the mechanical side.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 12:42 PM   #52

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I think the T-34 outclassed the Sherman in at least having a more powerful firepower. The Soviets were able to mass produce decent quality tanks by the end of the war, like the Iosif Stalin tanks.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 01:06 PM   #53

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I think the T-34 outclassed the Sherman in at least having a more powerful firepower. The Soviets were able to mass produce decent quality tanks by the end of the war, like the Iosif Stalin tanks.
What about armour? Wouldn't that too be a point in favour of the Ruskies?
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Old August 31st, 2015, 01:35 PM   #54

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What about armour? Wouldn't that too be a point in favour of the Ruskies?
in head to head matches though, M4s-especially with 76mm guns- had superior kill rates to their T34 enemies.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 01:49 PM   #55

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What about armour? Wouldn't that too be a point in favour of the Ruskies?
Soviet armor plate had some technical issues that actually made it more brittle in the early to mid-stages of the war. I think they corrected it eventually but I forget when exactly.

Eta- while looking for an earlier source that I'd read about the brittle armor issue, I came across this https://books.google.com/books?id=xj...0tanks&f=false
Not only does it talk about the armor issue but the person then goes onto his time in Sherman tanks. I think I'm going to have to find the full book somewhere.

Last edited by Fire_Raven; August 31st, 2015 at 01:56 PM.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 02:38 PM   #56

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Maybe the Tiger I wasn't the be-all and end-all, but whatever its actual performance it had a very real psychological effect on those who had to go up against it. I don't think that factor should be dismissed too easily.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 02:42 PM   #57
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The Sherman was a great tank, for what it was designed to do. It was fairly fast and maneuverable , mechanically reliable , relatively well armored and well gunned, and easy and cheap to produce in quantity. Was it better than other tanks, in some ways yes, and in some ways , no, depends on what your needs are. It was used in every theater of operations, From the jungles of Burma to the Tundra of Russia, to the Desert of Libya. It was upgraded numerous times, and continued to be, until very recently. It defeated Germans, Italians, Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, and a host of Arab, South American and African nations, even when these other nations had , SUPPOSEDLY, better tanks.
With the exception of the T-34, name another Tank that has done , what the Sherman has done? Go ahead....

Don't get me wrong… it was an okay tank… not nearly as reliable as people claim… a huge number ended up simply being cannibalized for parts to keep other shermans going… and only a small percentage of them had a gun that could take on the tiger.

But its real success was that Germans managed to make 1700 tigers.
And the US made 50,000 Shermans-


So… is the tiger overrated? Yes. But then, EVERY tank is overrated in terms of its features or importance.


Numbers and the ability to deliver them to the front count far more than the specs of any given tank.

If the Tiger held a ten to one kill ratio…. no problem if you can afford to field 20 to every tiger.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 03:00 PM   #58

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What about armour? Wouldn't that too be a point in favour of the Ruskies?
Perhaps, I'm more familiar with the firepower issue. The T-34 was more heavily armoured than the Sherman IIRC.

Last edited by Belloc; August 31st, 2015 at 03:02 PM.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 03:07 PM   #59
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Don't get me wrong… it was an okay tank… not nearly as reliable as people claim… a huge number ended up simply being cannibalized for parts to keep other shermans going… and only a small percentage of them had a gun that could take on the tiger.

But its real success was that Germans managed to make 1700 tigers.
And the US made 50,000 Shermans-


So… is the tiger overrated? Yes. But then, EVERY tank is overrated in terms of its features or importance.


Numbers and the ability to deliver them to the front count far more than the specs of any given tank.

If the Tiger held a ten to one kill ratio…. no problem if you can afford to field 20 to every tiger.
Well, considering that the Sherman is still listed in the inventories of a few nations, seventy years or more after it was invented, I think that makes it a great tank, and it's kill ratio was respectable after the adoption of the 76 MM gun.The upgrades done by the British and Israelis made it even more so. Against next generation tanks, like T-55's and Centurions.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 04:01 PM   #60

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Originally Posted by sculptingman View Post
Don't get me wrong… it was an okay tank… not nearly as reliable as people claim… a huge number ended up simply being cannibalized for parts to keep other shermans going… and only a small percentage of them had a gun that could take on the tiger.

But its real success was that Germans managed to make 1700 tigers.
And the US made 50,000 Shermans-


So… is the tiger overrated? Yes. But then, EVERY tank is overrated in terms of its features or importance.


Numbers and the ability to deliver them to the front count far more than the specs of any given tank.

If the Tiger held a ten to one kill ratio…. no problem if you can afford to field 20 to every tiger.

Tiger I was conceived "just" to be the spearhead of the German armoured units. They were fighting beside many other cheaper tanks and armoured vehicles. At the end, all other countries followed this procedure, since German tactics proved to be extremly succesful in the battlefield. The real problem was strategical not tactical.
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