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Old September 24th, 2015, 10:57 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Karl XII View Post
Funny because the Italians crushed them a couple of months later.
Yes, somewhere in the middle of the Po valley but maybe they emerged in the Po valley by a miracle or by a teleport.

Austrians defeated a dozen or so of Italian offensives with much smaller troops but of course a mountainous terrain helped them in the defense.
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Old September 24th, 2015, 10:41 PM   #32
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Yes, somewhere in the middle of the Po valley but maybe they emerged in the Po valley by a miracle or by a teleport.

Austrians defeated a dozen or so of Italian offensives with much smaller troops but of course a mountainous terrain helped them in the defense.
+ 1 Exactly.... the K und K Armee should arrived to Piave...by Teleportation...
Austria- Hungary didnīt disappear by war, but by an internal implosion produced by ultra-nationalism (minority but took advantage of the moment).
In 1918... the K und K Monarchie was in the zenith.
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Old September 24th, 2015, 11:35 PM   #33
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+ 1 Exactly.... the K und K Armee should arrived to Piave...by Teleportation...
Austria- Hungary didnīt disappear by war, but by an internal implosion produced by ultra-nationalism (minority but took advantage of the moment).
In 1918... the K und K Monarchie was in the zenith.
The Austrians suffered nearly 6 million casualties. I'm pretty sure the war had something to do with it.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 12:59 AM   #34

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Yes, somewhere in the middle of the Po valley but maybe they emerged in the Po valley by a miracle or by a teleport.

Austrians defeated a dozen or so of Italian offensives with much smaller troops but of course a mountainous terrain helped them in the defense.
The Po valley is 200 km southwards.
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 04:06 PM   #35

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Saw this at the bookstore today. Gave it a browse and it looks very good.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/For-God-Kaiser-Imperial-1619-1918/dp/0300178581"]For God and Kaiser: The Imperial Austrian Army, 1619-1918: Richard Bassett: 9780300178586: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EYcWKtDZL.@@AMEPARAM@@51EYcWKtDZL[/ame]
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Old October 2nd, 2015, 04:39 PM   #36
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From the 18th century (probably from the early decades of that century) the strategy of Austria, and of Austria-Hungary, was defensive. The degradation of that strategy was the fashion of the "offensive a outrance" that mesmerized military thinking after the Franco-Prussian War.

A-H lost the core and soul of the army, junior officers and NCOs, in 1914. In my opinion, it is miraculous that the army fought and survived for four years - on numerous fronts - and did not allow powerful enemies to penetrate the heartland of the empire. By 1918, the Habsburg monarchy was finished, but before that the army that dated long before that of Prussia/Germany had served the empire, and the peoples of the empire, well. An empire that mobilized 7,800,000 men was certainly a factor in the First World War.

The peoples of the former empire did not fare very well from the 1920s, and less so in the 1930s and 40s. Very many fared even worse after 1945. Those peoples were dominated and mistreated by either Germany or Russia - that was not their decision. It is arguable that peoples of the empire who were loyal to it suffered well into the 1990s. The myth of "self determination" deprived many of the empire's former subjects of the chance to be anything except pawns of two great powers in Europe. They were better off as parts of a great empire.
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Old October 12th, 2015, 01:48 AM   #37

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Originally Posted by Tercios Espanoles View Post
Saw this at the bookstore today. Gave it a browse and it looks very good.

For God and Kaiser: The Imperial Austrian Army, 1619-1918: Richard Bassett: 9780300178586: Amazon.com: Books
I broke down and bought this book. Ten pages in I can already tell it was money well spent. Anyone with an interest in this area will want this one.

Its premise exactly addresses the OP and questions whether or not the KuK Armee is deserving of the poor reputation historians and critics have given it. It mentions in the introduction that between 1620 and 1918 it won more than 350 major victories, "a number far greater than its defeats."

Can't wait to dive into it.
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Old October 12th, 2015, 06:35 AM   #38
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I just saw the post on For God and Kaiser: The Imperial Austrian Army, 1619-1918. Here is a short list of other well done treatments of the Austrians:

Michael Hochedlinger, Austria's Wars of Emergence, 1683-1797 (London/Harlow, 2003).

Christopher Duffy, The Army of Maria Theresa (New York, 1977).

Gunther Rothenburg, The Army of Francis Joseph (Purdue U., 1976).

Istvan Deak, Beyond Nationalism: A Social and Political History of the Habsburg Officer Corps, 1848-1918 (Oxford, 1990).

I have not seen Gunther Rothenburg's book on the Archduke Charles and Napoleon (1990s?), a period which is a large gap in my own knowledge of military history.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 01:13 PM   #39

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Originally Posted by pikeshot1600 View Post
From the 18th century (probably from the early decades of that century) the strategy of Austria, and of Austria-Hungary, was defensive. The degradation of that strategy was the fashion of the "offensive a outrance" that mesmerized military thinking after the Franco-Prussian War.

A-H lost the core and soul of the army, junior officers and NCOs, in 1914. In my opinion, it is miraculous that the army fought and survived for four years - on numerous fronts - and did not allow powerful enemies to penetrate the heartland of the empire. By 1918, the Habsburg monarchy was finished, but before that the army that dated long before that of Prussia/Germany had served the empire, and the peoples of the empire, well. An empire that mobilized 7,800,000 men was certainly a factor in the First World War.

The peoples of the former empire did not fare very well from the 1920s, and less so in the 1930s and 40s. Very many fared even worse after 1945. Those peoples were dominated and mistreated by either Germany or Russia - that was not their decision. It is arguable that peoples of the empire who were loyal to it suffered well into the 1990s. The myth of "self determination" deprived many of the empire's former subjects of the chance to be anything except pawns of two great powers in Europe. They were better off as parts of a great empire.
No miracle, it simply had German officers take it over as an oversized auxiliary force belonging to an elite with delusions of its independence. So long as Wilhelm II's officers commanded it, Franz Josef's army was no better or worse than its rivals. Under its own officers it was barely capable of holding on against Cadorna, let alone the Serbians or the Russians.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 03:54 PM   #40

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I hope this doesn't come off as one of those nation bashing threads, I honestly intend to spark intellectual debate about the matter. Looking through their military history they seemed to have been on the losing side far more than the winning one, and even when they did win it usually involved the help of allies.
Why was this? Was it simply due to being a heterogeneous state? Were there defeats even primarily military or diplomatic?
Heres a link with a list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...olving_Austria


They obviously weren't awful due to the fact that they survived intact until WW1 but they also got lucky quite a few times(both sieges of Vienna, Napoleon not dismantling them).
Just looked through the link you provided. It lists 22 victorious wars against 13 defeats (and I have issues with some of those being listed as defeats). So the premise that they were more often on the losing side is just wrong.
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