Evil prophets

Joined Jul 2006
6,111 Posts | 7+
UK
The prophet most of us are familiar with is a wise holy man who lives a simple life to become closer to God. However the bible mentions an exception to the rule: Balaam, an evil royal adviser who told Pharaoh to kill the Israelite firstborn and attempted to curse the Israelites. He later paid for his wickedness when he was killed in battle against the army of Israel.
Were there any other corrupt or morally bad men in ancient times who had the God-given gift of prophesy, or were chosen by God for a specific task? If so, name them?
 
Joined Jun 2009
6,987 Posts | 17+
Glorious England
I think you should reconsider the use of the word 'evil'. There is no objective good or evil - what's good for one is evil to another, so perhaps there is a better term to use...?
 
Joined Oct 2007
8,433 Posts | 0+
Borneo~ that big Island in S.E. ASIA
I think you should reconsider the use of the word 'evil'. There is no objective good or evil - what's good for one is evil to another, so perhaps there is a better term to use...?
That's merely your opinion, and should not be stated as a dogma, so perhaps there is a better approach to use...?
 
Joined Aug 2009
5,747 Posts | 10+
Belgium
Last edited:
I think you should reconsider the use of the word 'evil'. There is no objective good or evil - what's good for one is evil to another, so perhaps there is a better term to use...?

I think so to... :) But it is a fact also that most people have a hard time accepting such a preset.
 
Joined Oct 2007
8,433 Posts | 0+
Borneo~ that big Island in S.E. ASIA
Yes Nick there are many others but they are not named.

Here is one example:

Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

and another:

Lam 2:14 Thy prophets have seen vain and foolish things for thee: and they have not discovered thine iniquity, to turn away thy captivity; but have seen for thee false burdens and causes of banishment.

These appear to be self, or clerically appointed men that they labeled "prophets" and not one's from God at all.
 
Joined Dec 2009
11,340 Posts | 2+
Ozarkistan
I can attest to the flying-spaghetti monster. He was my little son. I have pictures of him in a high chair, practicing his art. He didn't fly, but the spaghetti did.
 
Joined Jul 2009
9,508 Posts | 1+
Israel
I think you should reconsider the use of the word 'evil'. There is no objective good or evil - what's good for one is evil to another, so perhaps there is a better term to use...?
Oh, I don't know... Coming up with killing of first-borns of a people is pretty evil, in my book... Anybody here consider it "good"?
 
Joined Aug 2009
5,747 Posts | 10+
Belgium
Anybody here consider it "good"?

I consider it wrong... of course, contemporary values should be taken into account, is the idea so aberrant in its given context/time? (doesn't mean we need to condone it, or be apologetic about it, but is important in putting it historical perspective)
 
Joined Jul 2009
9,508 Posts | 1+
Israel
I consider it wrong... of course, contemporary values should be taken into account, is the idea so aberrant in its given context/time? (doesn't mean we need to condone it, or be apologetic about it, but is important in putting it historical perspective)
It is known to have been done a few times. But even then it was not a common everyday occurrence you shrug your shoulders about, or it wouldn't have been mentioned in the bible in this manner. Kings hadn't used to (ever) order to kill all first-born of other peoples every week or so. Am I wrong here?
 

gus

Joined Jun 2009
420 Posts | 0+
America
The prophet most of us are familiar with is a wise holy man who lives a simple life to become closer to God. However the bible mentions an exception to the rule: Balaam, an evil royal adviser who told Pharaoh to kill the Israelite firstborn and attempted to curse the Israelites. He later paid for his wickedness when he was killed in battle against the army of Israel.
Were there any other corrupt or morally bad men in ancient times who had the God-given gift of prophesy, or were chosen by God for a specific task? If so, name them?

(You should consider reading the story again. Balaam had nothing to do with Pharaoh ... oO ~

.) It isn't the first time I say so, in this forum.

MERRY CHRISTMAS! :p
 
Joined Jun 2009
6,987 Posts | 17+
Glorious England
That's merely your opinion, and should not be stated as a dogma, so perhaps there is a better approach to use...?

Well of course it's my opinion...who else's opinion would it be?

Sorry Clarence, I wasn't actually trying to be abrasive in my previous post, but perhaps I came across as such.

What I mean is that 'good' and 'evil' are better termed 'generosity' and 'selfishness'.

To quote Dictionary.com, evil is defined primarily as: "morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked".

The problem with the very definition of the word 'evil' is that it is not definite. There is no fixed idea of what is morally right or wrong, there's only what each individual perceives as such due to the time and society they live in.

Many Catholic priests would term masturbation, pre-marital ... and various other natural functions as 'wicked', but I don't agree with them. Does that make me 'evil'? Of course not. That just means we have a different set of morals and values.

Are the Crusades good or evil? Did the Crusaders consider themselves good or evil? It's all subjective and none of it can be considered absolute. It was absolutely right that the Crusaders killed any Muslim or Pagan that they wanted, as these things weren't just frowned upon, they were downright heresy and evil in themselves, to the Christians.

Do I agree with it, looking at it from the perspective of modern morality? No, of course not. But if I had been born and raised in the 11th century, would I feel the same way?

Therefore, there's no such thing as a 'good' prophet or an 'evil' one. All you can have really are 'pro-Yahweh' or 'anti-Yahweh' prophets, because the anti-Prophets weren't thinking to themselves "I think I'll do that which I consider evil because I like being evil", they thought "I'll do good according to what I consider to be good".

Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Lam 2:14 Thy prophets have seen vain and foolish things for thee: and they have not discovered thine iniquity, to turn away thy captivity; but have seen for thee false burdens and causes of banishment.

Can you not see how these two quotes from you are entirely subjective? It's just a matter of opinion of the writer if they are right or wrong, and it's just as easy to argue from one position as it is another - as it is, you have a pro-Yahweh position on it and thus the antagonists are considered 'evil'.
 
Joined Jul 2009
9,508 Posts | 1+
Israel
(You should consider reading the story again. Balaam had nothing to do with Pharaoh ... oO ~

.) It isn't the first time I say so, in this forum.

MERRY CHRISTMAS! :p
Indeed, this particular prophet is neither connected to Pharaoh nor evil. He was a true prophet, as a matter of fact, of the gentiles.
 
Joined Jul 2006
6,111 Posts | 7+
UK
It's not mentioned in the Christian bible but a passage in the Talmud claims Balaam was Pharaoh's adviser. The others were Job and Jethro.
Balaam attempted to curse Israel for the Midianite king three times but each attempt became a blessing and prediction of Midian's destruction.
 
Joined Jul 2009
9,508 Posts | 1+
Israel
It's not mentioned in the Christian bible but a passage in the Talmud claims Balaam was Pharaoh's adviser. The others were Job and Jethro.
Balaam attempted to curse Israel for the Midianite king three times but each attempt became a blessing and prediction of Midian's destruction.
Yes, I think it was the Moav king, Balak Ben Zipor. As the advise in question was before Moshe was born, the Talmud interpreters say this was Bil'am's grandfather, and not THIS Bil'am.

The Talmud also states that this Bil'am was a true prophet. They equate him to Moshe himself, one of the seven great gentile prophets.
 

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