Italy as the number 2 largest economy in Europe:

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Italy didn't achieve the high tech production such has Taiwan in terms of producing semi-conductors in the 20th Century. Fiats were never regarded at least in the US as Japanese or even Korean cars in the latter part of the 20th Century. Ireland and Israel became a high tech center due to high educational levels Italy not so much.
Leftyhunter
 
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Batha
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Italy didn't achieve the high tech production such has Taiwan in terms of producing semi-conductors in the 20th Century. Fiats were never regarded at least in the US as Japanese or even Korean cars in the latter part of the 20th Century. Ireland and Israel became a high tech center due to high educational levels Italy not so much.
Leftyhunter
But Ferrari and Laborghini are very popular in US. As Gucci shoes. Italian and French dress designers are the best in the world. Japan, Taiwan, Israel can suggest nothing in dress design. There is one japanese Haute couture company Issey Miyake but the designers are french there.
Italian designers are the gold of Italy.
Italian HiTech
 
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But Ferrari and Laborghini are very popular in US. As Gucci shoes. Italian and French dress designers are the best in the world. Japan, Taiwan, Israel can suggest nothing in dress design. There is one japanese Haute couture company Issey Miyake but the designers are french there.
Italian designers are the gold of Italy.
Italian HiTech
Sure, and those are some pricy commodities per unit – but it's still a matter of niche markets, and very limited volumes. It is pretty consistent with Italy being good at certain kinds of almost artisanal quaility products, and small enterprises, but it's hardly a way towards a continued prosperous future as a whole.

If Olivetti was still around, and Italy was a world leader in information tech and digitalization... and one upon a time Olivetti looked like part of something heading that way... but the again, Olivetti is long gone by now...
 
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Italy, Lago Maggiore
I remind that we cannot discuss current events and / or go beyond the limit of 2000.

If you want, we can discuss the bases of Italian economy [which allowed Italy to be the 5th world economic power in the 80's, even surpassing UK].

As you have already noted, Italy hasn't based its economic development on industry after the 70's, while for about 35-40 years industry has been the train of Italian economy after WWII], but on the sector of the services. About car producers, the Italian brands were going to become an international holding. The process begun just in the 80's when FIAT bought the others [AlfaRomeo, Lancia, Ferrari and Maserati included].

So, which have been the columns of Italian economy from late 80's on?
Trade, communications, tourism, transports, banking and financing, real estates trade, and professional services.
Industry has fallen under the 20% of Italian GDP.
 
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Sydney
no energy source , no future
the British industrial miracle happened because of a mountain of coal export
the US industrial miracle happened because of rich oil exports
everybody else was just playing catch up
think power , think..... power source !
 
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But Ferrari and Laborghini are very popular in US. As Gucci shoes. Italian and French dress designers are the best in the world. Japan, Taiwan, Israel can suggest nothing in dress design. There is one japanese Haute couture company Issey Miyake but the designers are french there.
Italian designers are the gold of Italy.
Italian HiTech
Ferrari and Lamborghini compined sell a tiny fraction of vehicles that any Japanese or Korean car manufacturer sold in the US prior to 2000. A tiny fraction of American consumers purchased clothing made in Italy. Dress designers can only account for miniscule amount of workers. The path to Italian prosperity never was going to come from having the best fashion designers in the world.
Leftyhunter
 
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Then tourism it is?
Not really because tourism brings low wage jobs such has, maids wait staff , food service, prostitution,taxi drivers( since we can't go past 2000) hospitality, tour guides , retail none of which pay very well. Often those jobs historically go to illegal workers . Yes tourism does bring in tax revenue and I remember circa 1969 the actor Robert Wagner reminding folks in Southern California to be nice to tourists as they were an important part of the Southern California economy.
So yes tourism has its place but it won't support many middle and upper class jobs.
Leftyhunter
 
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Italy, Lago Maggiore
Ferrari and Lamborghini compined sell a tiny fraction of vehicles that any Japanese or Korean car manufacturer sold in the US prior to 2000. A tiny fraction of American consumers purchased clothing made in Italy. Dress designers can only account for miniscule amount of workers. The path to Italian prosperity never was going to come from having the best fashion designers in the world.
Leftyhunter

For accuracy: the ownership of Lamborghini is no more Italian.
 
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Batha
Well we have to stick to pre 2000. Then we have to look at Italian clothing exports up to 2000 vs other countries.
Leftyhunter
In 1998 I have bought Italian swimming trunks in Rome. Not Versace, but very good quality and design.
 
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In 1998 I have bought Italian swimming trunks in Rome. Not Versace, but very good quality and design.
That's great but my point is clothing exports from Italy have been steadily decreasing for decades. The challenge that many nations face is how to provide high wage jobs in an economy undergoing deindustrialization. Goverment's can't really tax low wage jobs such has workers involved in tourism.
Leftyhunter
 
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Monterrey
Italy is very distinctively divided into North and South, with the wealth and industry found in the former. This is the main problem that they have been unable to resolve. Mafia and corruption plays a role too.
 
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Batha
Also italian canned tomatoes are great, like fresh absolutely. Olive oil is excellent , but the best and most expensive is french from Provence.
Overall Italy produce a lot of good things to export
 
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Italy, Lago Maggiore
Italy is very distinctively divided into North and South, with the wealth and industry found in the former. This is the main problem that they have been unable to resolve. Mafia and corruption plays a role too.

This is a historical problem: keep in mind that it was the North to conquer the South. Patriotic rhetoric aside, this put the South is an inferior position and obviously the conquerors exploited the resources of the conquered lands. The Republic has been doing a lot to allow the South to improve, but there is still a long way to go.
 
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Virginia
[which allowed Italy to be the 5th world economic power in the 80's, even surpassing UK].

Wow - good show, I never knew that. I knew that Germany and France had overtaken UK for sure, but not Italy. One reason why Anglo condescension towards the continent never made sense to me.

You know around about 1999-2000 I remember hearing a statistic that Italy was #7 in the world at the time, and that was actually about equivalent of what Black America would be if it were its own country/economy.
 
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Culver City , Ca
Also italian canned tomatoes are great, like fresh absolutely. Olive oil is excellent , but the best and most expensive is french from Provence.
Overall Italy produce a lot of good things to export
Yes but the challenge is to maintain and expand a national economy that provides enough wealth for the citizenry plus generate sufficient tax revenue. Agricultural exports are just a small part of that equation. It's quite a challenge to maintain a sucessful economy.
Leftyhunter
 

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