Joined Nov 2019
542 Posts | 167+
Solar System
This might be the last thread that I post here, cause I found out that the freedom of expression on this forum is questionable and apparently someone wants to silence me.
Look, I never argued against the facts that Cantonese is descended from Middle Chinese and that the vast majority of its vocabulary is Sinitic.
However, what I'm arguing against is claims like "Cantonese is considered one of the most conservative varieties coming from that language" or that "Cantonese is the purest descendant of Middle Chinese". Nope, it isn't, it also has undergone its own sound changes, which are no less drastic than the ones undergone by Mandarin. In fact, Cantonese only preserved the coda consonants of Middle Chinese, however regarding to the vowels, prenuclear glides, and the initial consonants the changes in Cantonese are as great as Mandarin, or perhaps even greater.
Just to give you some examples (Middle Chinese pronunciation given here is based on the reconstruction of professor Yan Shi, which is in turn based on the rime dictionary Guangyun)
十 (Ten)
Middle Chinese: zjip
Mandarin: shi
Cantonese: sap
心 (Heart)
Middle Chinese: sim
Mandarin: xin
Cantonese: sum
人 (Human or Person)
Middle Chinese: njin
Mandarin: ren
Cantonese: yan
日 (Sun or Day)
Middle Chinese: njit
Mandarin: ri
Cantonese: yat
月 (Moon or Month)
Middle Chinese: ngyat
Mandarin: yue
Cantonese: yut
風 (Wind)
Middle Chinese: pjung
Mandarin: feng
Cantonese: fung
苦 (Bitter)
Middle Chinese: khuo
Mandarin: ku
Cantonese: fu
中 (Center)
Middle Chinese: triung
Mandarin: zhong
Cantonese: zung
九 (Nine)
Middle Chinese: kiu
Mandarin: jiu
Cantonese: gou
And not to mention that Cantonese also contains words and expressions that are similar to neighboring Kradai languages, and Mandarin doesn't have those.
So in brief, Cantonese definitely isn't the most conservative regarding to sound changes. As someone who is quite familiar with Middle Chinese reconstructions, I would say that Sino-Korean and Sino-Japanese vocabulary are the most similar to Middle Chinese, followed by perhaps Hakka or certain varieties of Wu and Min.
For instance, there's a North Korean tank code-named "Pok Pung Ho" (暴風虎) or Storm Tiger, and that's really one of the most faithful renditions of Middle Chinese that I've ever heard, almost exactly the same as Guangyun.
And in Sino-Japanese vocabulary, 神風 or Divine Wind is called "Shin Puu".
Look, I never argued against the facts that Cantonese is descended from Middle Chinese and that the vast majority of its vocabulary is Sinitic.
However, what I'm arguing against is claims like "Cantonese is considered one of the most conservative varieties coming from that language" or that "Cantonese is the purest descendant of Middle Chinese". Nope, it isn't, it also has undergone its own sound changes, which are no less drastic than the ones undergone by Mandarin. In fact, Cantonese only preserved the coda consonants of Middle Chinese, however regarding to the vowels, prenuclear glides, and the initial consonants the changes in Cantonese are as great as Mandarin, or perhaps even greater.
Just to give you some examples (Middle Chinese pronunciation given here is based on the reconstruction of professor Yan Shi, which is in turn based on the rime dictionary Guangyun)
十 (Ten)
Middle Chinese: zjip
Mandarin: shi
Cantonese: sap
心 (Heart)
Middle Chinese: sim
Mandarin: xin
Cantonese: sum
人 (Human or Person)
Middle Chinese: njin
Mandarin: ren
Cantonese: yan
日 (Sun or Day)
Middle Chinese: njit
Mandarin: ri
Cantonese: yat
月 (Moon or Month)
Middle Chinese: ngyat
Mandarin: yue
Cantonese: yut
風 (Wind)
Middle Chinese: pjung
Mandarin: feng
Cantonese: fung
苦 (Bitter)
Middle Chinese: khuo
Mandarin: ku
Cantonese: fu
中 (Center)
Middle Chinese: triung
Mandarin: zhong
Cantonese: zung
九 (Nine)
Middle Chinese: kiu
Mandarin: jiu
Cantonese: gou
And not to mention that Cantonese also contains words and expressions that are similar to neighboring Kradai languages, and Mandarin doesn't have those.
So in brief, Cantonese definitely isn't the most conservative regarding to sound changes. As someone who is quite familiar with Middle Chinese reconstructions, I would say that Sino-Korean and Sino-Japanese vocabulary are the most similar to Middle Chinese, followed by perhaps Hakka or certain varieties of Wu and Min.
For instance, there's a North Korean tank code-named "Pok Pung Ho" (暴風虎) or Storm Tiger, and that's really one of the most faithful renditions of Middle Chinese that I've ever heard, almost exactly the same as Guangyun.
And in Sino-Japanese vocabulary, 神風 or Divine Wind is called "Shin Puu".