What was the main motivation of German General Staff initiating Schlieffen Plan in 1914

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When Second Balkan Crisis erupted in July 1914 , German General Staff mostly headed by Von Moltke the Younger and Admiral Von Tirpitz , put up a huge pressure to initiate Schlieffen Plan at once and start mobilisation plan that was drawn and written in detail and start meticilous train schedules as soon as possible. So much that while German Foreign Office was telling Vienna to go slow on Serbia , German General Staff was relaying Austrian High Command that they would support them no matter what against Russia if they mobilise against Serbia (Austrian goverment inquired "who rules in Berlin ?)

What was the reason of such rashness and haste to initiate Schlieffen Plan as soon as possible , not even properly giving diplomats in Wilhelmstrasse a chance ? Even main proponent of the plan Von Moltke the Younger was not fully confident of its success. Was it German ruling military german general class (Junkers landowning aristocrat class , highly conservative men afraid of losing their dominance in Second Reich politics) fear of losing their power in domestic politics since German Social Democrats won huge number of seats in Reichstag in 1912 elections and became majority over conservatives. Was it German Generals last throw of dice to increase their popularity in German society in midst of a huge workers movement during Second Internationale , preserve their powerbase in goverment and in army their most important asset and cripple Social Democratic policies which intended to give more budget and legistation to social programs , by imitating Bismarck and start a war that was supposed to be short and victorious against a popular enemy like Bismark did in 1870-71 Franco-Prussia War to unify Germany and create Second Reich ?

Or was it an irrational fear of Tsarist Russia which was investing in railway construction , heavy industry , oil production and mining and raising its economic output sharply since Russo-Japanese War in 1904 and Imperial German militarist generals felt threatened by it ? Von Montke the Younger remarked that if they fight with Russia in 1917 or 1918 they could not win , rather fight with them now when they had a chance to win in 1914. Was it the reason they took such big gamble to antagonise both France and Russia (and ignore Bismark's diplomacy to isolate a foe , like France in 1870) since Kaiser Wilhelm II had not renewed extension of Three Emperors League from 19th Century ?
 
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Germany wanted war in 1914 in part due to Russia, as you yourself mentioned. They felt that they should deal with Russia before it completed its reforms. However, fighting Russia would also inevitably mean fighting France as well and the Schlieffen Plan was Germany's main plan to deal with France so it had to be implemented in 1914.
 
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They were fighting the 1870 war

For many people it was clear the Schlieffen Plan had some critical failures, the most important one that by invading Belgium, the UK would intervene in the war, thus dramatically chaging the equilibrium of power

In the very last days, a very nervous Kaiser Wilhelm II called Von Moltke and told him about the many dangers of attacking the west. Instead, he proposed a deffensive approach in the west against France, not invading Belgium to not offend UK, and attacking Russia which was the main problem after all. In short, the very obvious response to the situation of 1914.

He was told all he plan had been scheduled and could not be changed, also the German staff neglected the idea of UK entering the war to defend the Belgians, and so the Kaiser accepted it. Thence, Germany headed into defeat right before starting the affair
 
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Germany didn´t want the War. Second: Schlieffen plan was never applied, but the Moltke plan, a very substantial modification of the Schlieffen plan. Third: Germany was unable to continue diplomatic action when Russia had ordered the mobilization of its army. Fourth, British intervention was determined no matter what happened to Belgium

like Bismark did in 1870-71 Franco-Prussia War to unify Germany and create Second Reich ?

The world upside down! It was not Bismarck, it was not Prussia, It was not the German Confederacy who declared war on France but France who declared war on Prussia...To say Bismarck declared War is as to say Poland invaded Germany September 1st, 1939!!!

France wanted the war, desired the war and was sure that it was going to win the war ... it was crushed it in 3 months ... but we cannot falsify history ... that the French are always "the good guys and the peaceful "and the Germans the" bad and the aggressive "... In reality almost all Franco-German wars began with the declaration of war by France

70-1-napo1.jpg


The last thing I had to read is that here it is said that it was Prussia that declared war on France ... And look, I have read nonsense!

Dear Merdiolu ... Being French does not mean being right, or being an innocent little angel ... France wanted war ... and paid with its defeat.
 
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I would think the main motivation was a total lack of imagination of the German General staff

the Moltke plan was plain silly , it relied on the French command being as stupid as them ..... they were !
the Belgian fortresses had to be taken in a matter of days , they were but that was rather lucky
there was no coordination at the Armies level
Moltke totally failed as a commander , getting the vapors pretty early in the war and leaving things go to pot
 
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It is the standard German plan that goes back to Prussia, the "Great Elector", Frederick the Great and Bismarck. Surrounded by enemies (France and Russia) Germany sought the quick victory in the West based on better preparation, quicker mobilization and concentration.

The plan was to concentrate overwhelming strength and knock France out of the war quickly, then redeploy to the East before the Russian masses could mobilize and overwhelm the defenders of East Prussia.
 
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I would think the main motivation was a total lack of imagination of the German General staff

the Moltke plan was plain silly , it relied on the French command being as stupid as them ..... they were !
the Belgian fortresses had to be taken in a matter of days , they were but that was rather lucky
there was no coordination at the Armies level
Moltke totally failed as a commander , getting the vapors pretty early in the war and leaving things go to pot

I agree with Sparky but I would add:

100% (not exceptions not even)... plans applied in 1914 failed... French XVII Plan was a dissaster, as the Austro-hungarian Plans or the Russian Plan! and later, the Ottoman Plan...In this context, the German plan was no different ... and if the German generals were idiots ... what to say about the French attacking in Lorraine and Alsace ...

The French Plan failed as completely as Moltke's plan ... Not only the German one failed but 100% plans!!!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Plan_XVII.svg
 
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The world upside down! It was not Bismarck, it was not Prussia, It was not the German Confederacy who declared war on France but France who declared war on Prussia...To say Bismarck declared War is as to say Poland invaded Germany September 1st, 1939!!!

I find that determining the rights and wrongs in these cases to be a fruitless exercise. While France was the first to declare war, there's a good argument that Bismarck provoked it. It's like arbitrating a dispute between children:
"He started it"
"No, I didn't!"
Punish both of them and move on. Life is too short.
 
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Dear Chlodio.. it is funny to see how the same people blame to . Austria-Hungary begun the WW1... they say France didn´t begin the Franco-Prussian war....
Who declared war? France or Prussia?
 
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Dear Chlodio.. it is funny to see how the same people blame to . Austria-Hungary begun the WW1... they say France didn´t begin the Franco-Prussian war....
Who declared war? France or Prussia?
Why is the official declaration of war the only thing we should be looking at?

Also, why exactly was Germany unable to continue with diplomacy after Russia's mobilization? Mobilization is not war.
 
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France and Germany had almost gone to war several times already, notably during the Agadir (Morocco) crisis in 1911 (there was already one over Tangiers in 1905)

Apparently the mood in Europe (and especially in France and Germany) was that a war was inevitable and even desirable... It was expected to be short and decisive.

With hostilities flaring up in the balkans the german general staff basically seized the opportunity and wanted "first mover advantage"
 
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Why is the official declaration of war the only thing we should be looking at?

Also, why exactly was Germany unable to continue with diplomacy after Russia's mobilization? Mobilization is not war.

Well, dear Maki, in the German case, movilization meant War.. that´s the reason because the Kaiserreich had a previous step befor movilization, the Kriegsgefahrzustand (danger of imminent war). Nor Germany nor Austria - Hungary wanted the War.. but if you like we can make a list of declarations of wars between 1815 to 1914... and you will see how many wars were declared by Germany or the Monarchy and how many by Russia, France, Italy, Great Britain, USA etc...

in 1870... France declared war (as they did in 1859)...and Bismarck didn´t declare any war to France (It is not my opinion.. it is a mathematic assuarance)... it is not necessary to say to you... Germany (nor Prussia nor Austria) invaded Mexico in 1861/62.

Regards
 
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How? Mobilization is NOT war, regardless of what Germany did or did not think. AFAIK Germany's willingness for war, it's clear that Berlin wanted war and actively pushed Austria-Hungary to deal with Serbia knowing that such a situation could escalate for which they guaranteed their support to Vienna.
 
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How? Mobilization is NOT war, regardless of what Germany did or did not think. AFAIK Germany's willingness for war, it's clear that Berlin wanted war and actively pushed Austria-Hungary to deal with Serbia knowing that such a situation could escalate for which they guaranteed their support to Vienna.

For Germany Mobilization DID WAR... so easy... and you can´t change the German concept in 2020... Who wanted the War was who killed Franz Ferdinand.. the same who declared war Ottoman Empire, and Bulgaria in 1885 and 1913... etc etc

France did want the war because French ultra-nationalism was obssed with Alsance-Lorraine.. two Imperial provinces till 1791...After 1814-1815 Victories, Prussia and Austria had the power and legitimacy to incorporate both provinces to the German Confederation, but they did not.. in 1871.. after France declared War on Prussia and lost.... German Confederation decided to re-incorporate the Imperial Provinces to II Reich. When a country loses the war, it usually loses territories. France has no special right to be treated differently .... I will never understand why the territories it had stolen were not taken away from it after its defeats in 1814-1815.
 
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For Germany Mobilization DID WAR... so easy... and you can´t change the German concept in 2020... Who wanted the War was who killed Franz Ferdinand.. the same who declared war Ottoman Empire, and Bulgaria in 1885 and 1913... etc etc
Who wanted war? The ones that actually escalated the situation and led to a WORLD war. Vienna that desperately wanted to teach Serbia a "lesson" and Berlin that was willing to fully support Vienna even at a cost of a world catastrophe.
 
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How? Mobilization is NOT war, regardless of what Germany did or did not think. AFAIK Germany's willingness for war, it's clear that Berlin wanted war and actively pushed Austria-Hungary to deal with Serbia knowing that such a situation could escalate for which they guaranteed their support to Vienna.

The French and Russian Armies outnumbered the Germans, but they were divided between east and west. Schlieffen's Plan was to concentrate on France first, defeating them, then switch to the east and fight the Russians. The Russians would be slower to mobilize due to having to travel greater distances and having fewer railroads, but Russian mobilization would only lag behind the French and Germans by a few weeks or months. Germany had to defeat France before Russia completed its mobilization. Once Russia began mobilizing, a clock started. Germany could no longer wait. Negotiations might drag on for months, and Germany would lose their advantage of faster mobilization.
 
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For Germany Mobilization DID WAR... so easy... and you can´t change the German concept in 2020... Who wanted the War was who killed Franz Ferdinand.. the same who declared war Ottoman Empire, and Bulgaria in 1885 and 1913... etc etc

France did want the war because French ultra-nationalism was obssed with Alsance-Lorraine.. two Imperial provinces till 1791...After 1814-1815 Victories, Prussia and Austria had the power and legitimacy to incorporate both provinces to the German Confederation, but they did not.. in 1871.. after France declared War on Prussia and lost.... German Confederation decided to re-incorporate the Imperial Provinces to II Reich. When a country loses the war, it usually loses territories. France has no special right to be treated differently .... I will never understand why the territories it had stolen were not taken away from it after its defeats in 1814-1815.

If Germany did not want war, how do you explain the blank cheque message of July 6, 1914:


Telegram from the Imperial Chancellor, von Bethmann-Hollweg, to the German Ambassador at Vienna. Tschirschky, July 6, 1914

Berlin, July 6, 1914

Confidential. For Your Excellency's personal information and guidance

The Austro-Hungarian Ambassador yesterday delivered to the Emperor a confidential personal letter from the Emperor Francis Joseph, which depicts the present situation from the Austro-Hungarian point of view, and describes the measures which Vienna has in view. A copy is now being forwarded to Your Excellency.

I replied to Count Szögyény today on behalf of His Majesty that His Majesty sends his thanks to the Emperor Francis Joseph for his letter and would soon answer it personally. In the meantime His Majesty desires to say that he is not blind to the danger which threatens Austria-Hungary and thus the Triple Alliance as a result of the Russian and Serbian Pan-Slavic agitation. Even though His Majesty is known to feel no unqualified confidence in Bulgaria and her ruler, and naturally inclines more to ward our old ally Rumania and her Hohenzollern prince, yet he quite understands that the Emperor Francis Joseph, in view of the attitude of Rumania and of the danger of a new Balkan alliance aimed directly at the Danube Monarchy, is anxious to bring about an understanding between Bulgaria and the Triple alliance [...]. His Majesty will, further more, make an effort at Bucharest, according to the wishes of the Emperor Francis Joseph, to influence King Carol to the fulfilment of the duties of his alliance, to the renunciation of Serbia, and to the suppression of the Rumanian agitations directed against Austria-Hungary.

Finally, as far as concerns Serbia, His Majesty, of course, cannot interfere in the dispute now going on between Austria-Hungary and that country, as it is a matter not within his competence. The Emperor Francis Joseph may, however, rest assured that His Majesty will faithfully stand by Austria-Hungary, as is required by the obligations of his alliance and of his ancient friendship.

BETHMANN-HOLLWEG


There is no mention here of a negotiated settlement. Germany is telling Austria-Hungary they can do whatever they want. Germany was willing to go to war. A peace-loving nation would have urged restraint.
 
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The French and Russian Armies outnumbered the Germans, but they were divided between east and west. Schlieffen's Plan was to concentrate on France first, defeating them, then switch to the east and fight the Russians. The Russians would be slower to mobilize due to having to travel greater distances and having fewer railroads, but Russian mobilization would only lag behind the French and Germans by a few weeks or months. Germany had to defeat France before Russia completed its mobilization. Once Russia began mobilizing, a clock started. Germany could no longer wait. Negotiations might drag on for months, and Germany would lose their advantage of faster mobilization.
That contradicts the fact that Bethmann-Hollweg considered Russian mobilization as a matter that was not of a major actual concern for Germany and said that Russia "does not intend to wage war, but has only been forced to take these measures because of Austria". The Chancellor was actually very happy that Russia mobilized since he could now start a war while rallying entire Germany behind the war effort. It is clear that the Russian mobilization was something Berlin welcomed in order to justify their war plans.
 
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That contradicts the fact that Bethmann-Hollweg considered Russian mobilization as a matter that was not of a major actual concern for Germany and said that Russia "does not intend to wage war, but has only been forced to take these measures because of Austria". The Chancellor was actually very happy that Russia mobilized since he could now start a war while rallying entire Germany behind the war effort. It is clear that the Russian mobilization was something Berlin welcomed in order to justify their war plans.

Don't confuse the exact circumstances of 1914 with the assumptions behind the Schlieffen Plan that were made many years prior. When Germany made their plan, they assumed Russia would attack as soon as possible. When they implemented the plan in 1914 they could not abandon that assumption.

In 1914 B-H seems to be saying that Russia lacked the will to attack, but with a mobilized army Russia could always change its mind and attack very quickly. It would be grossly irresponsible for a country to assume a mobilized army on its borders will not attack. The longer Russia did not attack the better it was for Germany, so I understand why B-H was hopeful that Russia would not attack. But the German General Staff was unwilling to assume Russia would never attack.

I take it you're familiar with some of the criticisms of Moltke and the Schlieffen Plan in 1914 and that the Germans should have been more flexible?
 
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Why is the official declaration of war the only thing we should be looking at?

Also, why exactly was Germany unable to continue with diplomacy after Russia's mobilization? Mobilization is not war.
Germany's military planning was too dependent on its and its enemy's timetables and thus unfortunately caused it to have less flexibility than the other Great Powers had. :(
 
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