1400 AD on, born in Africa, stay in Africa

Jul 2017
421
Memphis
#1
Supposing starting in 1400 anyone who was born in Africa, anyone, would die quickly if they ever left it, what would it mean to Africa and to America today?

If you are African American you could pretty much give up on ever having been to America.
 
Nov 2010
7,404
Cornwall
#2
Supposing starting in 1400 anyone who was born in Africa, anyone, would die quickly if they ever left it, what would it mean to Africa and to America today?

If you are African American you could pretty much give up on ever having been to America.
All things considered, I think people would have preferred to live without hope of 'going to America'
 
Jun 2015
5,620
UK
#3
Kongo would be a potential superpower. Many slaves left from there so maybe it would have expanded to what is now Cameroon or Nigeria. Or to the Arab outposts at the Indian Ocean.
 

Futurist

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May 2014
15,569
SoCal
#4
Supposing starting in 1400 anyone who was born in Africa, anyone, would die quickly if they ever left it, what would it mean to Africa and to America today?

If you are African American you could pretty much give up on ever having been to America.
Well, this would have meant that the Americas would not have had any Blacks living there. In turn, this would have meant that there would have been no Black influences on culture in the Americas--so no rap, no jazz, no hip-hop, no sagging pants, no soul food, et cetera. On the bright side, there would have been less crime in the Americas. Of course, the Blacks themselves would have almost certainly been worse off in Africa than in other parts of the world right now--which would suck for them. Even in regards to slavery, I'm not sure that Blacks would have been better off in this scenario since they would have been enslaved by other Blacks (or perhaps by Arabs who moved to Africa) rather than by Whites.
 
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#5
". On the bright side, there would have been less crime in the Americas. Of course, the Blacks themselves would have almost certainly been worse off in Africa. "



Less crime? Perhaps, not definitely. America currently has the largest per capita prison population ANY nation on earth . Of those, a huge percentage are black people in gaol due to non violent drug charges. Drugs such as marijuana, heroin and cocaine were criminalised in around 1920. Black America has been the main victim of both illegal drugs and the laws against drugs. The issue is the absurd drug laws rather than an innate criminality of black Americans.

All that can be reasonably assumed is that America MIGHT not have the race problem which today permeates American culture, or at least it would not be as pervasive..

Human beings are very inventive about finding a group to hate. Here in Australia,it's currently 'the muzzies' (muslims). In the 1980's it was the Vietnamese (refugees) before them the Italian and Greeks(migrants) thee Poms (british migrants) just after World War one it was 'the balks' displaced people from the Balkans. Threaded through this was a pervasive , casual racism against 'abos' (indigenous Australians) They were not even counted in the census until about 1963, and mixed race children were removed from Aboriginal parens to be educated white. These children are today known as"the stolen generation". PLUS from the time first settlement there was mutual enmity between the protestants (mainly British, often the administration) and the Catholics, mainly impoverished Irish, first as convicts, later as immigrants fleeing Ireland in the grip of starvation due to the potato famine in the middle of the 19th century.


" Of course, the Blacks themselves would have almost certainly been worse off in Africa than in other parts of the world right now--"

Not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean 'if left to their own devices' IE no massive scale of slavery and no colonialism? If so, I'm not sure that's true.

Africans have always been perfectly capable of forming great societies, even empires: The Nilotic ancient Egyptian empire was African , there was'the black kingdoms Cush and Sheba mentioned in the Torah. I think those kingdoms were present day Sudan and Ethiopia. 'Great Zimbabwe' was a city state founded in the eleventh century.First recorded white Man to see great Zimbabwe was Cecil Rhodes, who declared it to have been built by the Phoenicians as his British racism did not allow him believe it could possibly haven built by blacks. Last, but by means least was the Zulu empire, forged by Shaka Zulu in the early nineteen century Shaka was known as :"the Black Napoleon" By 1825, Shaka had conquered an area of 11, 500 miles.

In my opinion, a great deal of latter ay African poverty and underdevelopment was the result of long term rapacious colonialism. Without white interference, I have no problem in accepting that there would be some sophisticated modern societies throughout Africa today. Development would probably been bit different between northern, central and sub Saharan Africa.


Shaka - Wikipedia

Great Zimbabwe - Wikipedia
 

Futurist

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May 2014
15,569
SoCal
#8
". On the bright side, there would have been less crime in the Americas. Of course, the Blacks themselves would have almost certainly been worse off in Africa. "

Less crime? Perhaps, not definitely. America currently has the largest per capita prison population ANY nation on earth . Of those, a huge percentage are black people in gaol due to non violent drug charges. Drugs such as marijuana, heroin and cocaine were criminalised in around 1920. Black America has been the main victim of both illegal drugs and the laws against drugs. The issue is the absurd drug laws rather than an innate criminality of black Americans.
Oh, I certainly agree with you that a lot of people are in jail in the U.S. who don't belong there. I oppose hardline drug laws and think that countries such as Portugal have a better approach in regards to this.

That said, though, here is what Wikipedia says about this topic:

Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia

"The rate at which crime is committed varies greatly between racial groups. While most homicides in the United States are intraracial—the perpetrator and victim are of the same race—the rates at which African Americans (blacks) both commit and are the victim of homicide is about six to eight times higher than that of white Americans."

If this information is true, then this would mean that Blacks are indeed more inclined to both commit homicides and be the victims of homicides than Whites are.

All that can be reasonably assumed is that America MIGHT not have the race problem which today permeates American culture, or at least it would not be as pervasive..
You know, I wonder if Black criminality was as high as it is right now back in the days of Jim Crow. I mean, I don't think that Southern racists would have cared very much if Blacks were attacking and killing other Blacks, but maybe I'm wrong about this.

Human beings are very inventive about finding a group to hate. Here in Australia,it's currently 'the muzzies' (muslims). In the 1980's it was the Vietnamese (refugees) before them the Italian and Greeks(migrants) thee Poms (british migrants) just after World War one it was 'the balks' displaced people from the Balkans. Threaded through this was a pervasive , casual racism against 'abos' (indigenous Australians) They were not even counted in the census until about 1963, and mixed race children were removed from Aboriginal parens to be educated white. These children are today known as"the stolen generation". PLUS from the time first settlement there was mutual enmity between the protestants (mainly British, often the administration) and the Catholics, mainly impoverished Irish, first as convicts, later as immigrants fleeing Ireland in the grip of starvation due to the potato famine in the middle of the 19th century.
Very good points.

" Of course, the Blacks themselves would have almost certainly been worse off in Africa than in other parts of the world right now--"

Not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean 'if left to their own devices' IE no massive scale of slavery and no colonialism? If so, I'm not sure that's true.

Africans have always been perfectly capable of forming great societies, even empires: The Nilotic ancient Egyptian empire was African , there was'the black kingdoms Cush and Sheba mentioned in the Torah. I think those kingdoms were present day Sudan and Ethiopia. 'Great Zimbabwe' was a city state founded in the eleventh century.First recorded white Man to see great Zimbabwe was Cecil Rhodes, who declared it to have been built by the Phoenicians as his British racism did not allow him believe it could possibly haven built by blacks. Last, but by means least was the Zulu empire, forged by Shaka Zulu in the early nineteen century Shaka was known as :"the Black Napoleon" By 1825, Shaka had conquered an area of 11, 500 miles.

In my opinion, a great deal of latter ay African poverty and underdevelopment was the result of long term rapacious colonialism. Without white interference, I have no problem in accepting that there would be some sophisticated modern societies throughout Africa today. Development would probably been bit different between northern, central and sub Saharan Africa.

Shaka - Wikipedia

Great Zimbabwe - Wikipedia
This might be a stupid question, but how many African societies had the wheel before the Europeans arrived in Africa?
 

Futurist

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May 2014
15,569
SoCal
#9
Also, for what it's worth, I do think that it would have probably been best if Europeans had either not colonized Africa or militarily intervened there to stop slavery but then gradually withdrew from there. I'm not a fan of colonialism unless the colonized people themselves genuinely want this.
 

Futurist

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May 2014
15,569
SoCal
#10
You sure?

I mean, in term of stereotypes, we all know the criminal black guy from the suburbs, the Arab suicide bomber, the misfit-wearing-glasses-super-intelligent Jew ...

... Kosher Nostra ...
Are you sure that some stereotypes don't have an element of truth to them?
 

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