A pro-German Intermarium is created after Germany wins WWI

Futurist

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May 2014
22,750
SoCal
Bismarck and his allies saw them as a threat to German unity. They were expected to be germanized for the good of the empire. As I previously posted, many emigrated out in the late 19th century with the Prussian/German blessing. Their freights were even arranged, at times, by the government.
Do you know what percentage of German Poles emigrated before 1914?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,750
SoCal
@Gaius Julius Civilis: How did Austria-Hungary manage to avoid Balkanization in the centuries before WWI? I mean, it does seem like if A-H can do it, then there could likewise be a chance of an Intermarium to likewise do this, no?
 

Rodger

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Jun 2014
6,171
US
Do you know what percentage of German Poles emigrated before 1914?
The vast majority of them. In the U.S., the German Poles came first, followed by the Russian and Austrian Poles, although the latter two came quite closely. Once the war started, immigration virtually was halted. After that The U.S. Congress passed laws greatly restricting immigration from eastern and southern Europe.
 

Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
5,037
Iowa USA
The vast majority of them. In the U.S., the German Poles came first, followed by the Russian and Austrian Poles, although the latter two came quite closely. Once the war started, immigration virtually was halted. After that The U.S. Congress passed laws greatly restricting immigration from eastern and southern Europe.
Is it possible to introduce....

numbers to the discussion. The only number I have without looking is that Chicago was about an eighth Polish around 1917, which would mean 425-450,000 in Chicago. Given that Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago were the leading destinations, that's maybe a little over one million in those three cities.

I'm not at all confident that the statistics will be aligned with the idea of some 65 to 70 percent of Prussian Poles being in America.
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,171
US
Is it possible to introduce....

numbers to the discussion. The only number I have without looking is that Chicago was about an eighth Polish around 1917, which would mean 425-450,000 in Chicago. Given that Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago were the leading destinations, that's maybe a little over one million in those three cities.

I'm not at all confident that the statistics will be aligned with the idea of some 65 to 70 percent of Prussian Poles being in America.
Did 65-70% of the Polish immigrants come from Prussia/Germany? I have never heard that. I have some numbers for for the number of Polish in the major U.S. cities in 1900 (source, Lives of Their Own, Bodnar, Simon and Weber, Table 1, p.20) . Chicago was #1 with nearly 59,000, followed by New York with nearly 33,000, then Buffalo with nearly 19,000.
EDIT: I did find this article, full of statistics. It accounts for immigration from the 3 Partitioned lands but it starts the count in 1901, after immigration from the Prussian/German part had become a trickle.
POLISH IMMIGRATION TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: PROBLEMS OF ESTIMATION AND PARAMETERS on JSTOR
 
Last edited:
May 2018
928
Michigan
OK, but what about India or Nigeria?
India may contain many ethnic and cultural groups, but for 200 years (more or less) there was a an overarching power ostensibly "keeping them in line" (Great Britain). India, as we think of it today, only exists because of Great Britain doing the job of Bismarck and essentially unifying the area. Add to Ghandi's nationalist appeal for Independence, and a national identity was created. This is similar to another former British colony.
 
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Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
5,037
Iowa USA
Did 65-70% of the Polish immigrants come from Prussia/Germany? I have never heard that. I have some numbers for for the number of Polish in the major U.S. cities in 1900 (source, Lives of Their Own, Bodnar, Simon and Weber, Table 1, p.20) . Chicago was #1 with nearly 59,000, followed by New York with nearly 33,000, then Buffalo with nearly 19,000.
EDIT: I did find this article, full of statistics. It accounts for immigration from the 3 Partitioned lands but it starts the count in 1901, after immigration from the Prussian/German part had become a trickle.
POLISH IMMIGRATION TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: PROBLEMS OF ESTIMATION AND PARAMETERS on JSTOR
Hmmm. 59 000 in 1900 seems like a low count to me but I thank you for the reference! Buffalo, wow, quite surprised it is more popular than Cleveland!
 
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Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,171
US
Hmmm. 59 000 in 1900 seems like a low count to me but I thank you for the reference! Buffalo, wow, quite surprised it is more popular than Cleveland!
The table that produced that number says that data is based upon the 1900 U.S. Census, but, as the article aI attached demonstrates, it was difficult to ascertain who was really Polish versus who was German or Russian or Austrian or Jewish. For my own great grandfather, the 1900 Census lists his place of birth as Poland, Germany; in the 1910 Census his birthplace was listed as Germany; in 1920 his birthplace was listed as Poland (to coincide with the rebirth of Poland?); however, the 1930 U.S/ Census lists his place of birth as Germany. In those same Census reports, his native tongue is listed as German in some of the earlier ones and Polish in the latter. I have read that when many Poles immigrated to America in the 1880s and 1890s, they found German speaking communities in which to settle because most of those German Poles spoke German. Some chose to identify with "German" because it was readily accepted in the U.S. Once these immigrants settled in and became Americanized, or at least familiar and comfortable, many of those who listed themselves as "German" now listed ther ethnicity and mother tongue as Polish.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,750
SoCal
The table that produced that number says that data is based upon the 1900 U.S. Census, but, as the article aI attached demonstrates, it was difficult to ascertain who was really Polish versus who was German or Russian or Austrian or Jewish. For my own great grandfather, the 1900 Census lists his place of birth as Poland, Germany; in the 1910 Census his birthplace was listed as Germany; in 1920 his birthplace was listed as Poland (to coincide with the rebirth of Poland?); however, the 1930 U.S/ Census lists his place of birth as Germany. In those same Census reports, his native tongue is listed as German in some of the earlier ones and Polish in the latter. I have read that when many Poles immigrated to America in the 1880s and 1890s, they found German speaking communities in which to settle because most of those German Poles spoke German. Some chose to identify with "German" because it was readily accepted in the U.S. Once these immigrants settled in and became Americanized, or at least familiar and comfortable, many of those who listed themselves as "German" now listed ther ethnicity and mother tongue as Polish.
What did his 1940 US Census entry look like?