About intelligence and education

Jan 2010
4,355
Atlanta, Georgia USA
#11
That's a puzzler! But if pushed, I'd say the later. The British university system used to be free. Of course, you had to prove that you were capable of further education in order to gain entry. Usually, this meant "A" Levels ("A" is for "Advanced", apparently) of a good enough grade, usually at least 4 of them. For those who missed the boat at school, there were numerous schemes to allow mature students the means to learn and attain the right standard.

However, this system was a privilege one had to earn. If you failed, tough. Therefore, standards had to be more rigorous and universities owned course failures nothing, either materially or morally.

But since Britain adopted a system where university now costs the student, the relationship between student and university has changed drastically. Essentially, the student is now a customer. He or she picks a university (although some do still demand the right entry qualifications), and many do so by pass rate. Universities now have to openly campaign to get new students and they have a vested interest in high pass rates. Plus, many courses now are "mickey mouse" popularist ones. I get regular emails etc from graduates trying to get a job or training, and I'm often shocked by how poor the literacy and grammar are in these.
Sounds very much like US undergraduate education today.
 
Aug 2010
15,456
Welsh Marches
#12
It is not fair to blame universities alone for poor literacy, such things should already have been learned at school; I taught for a while at a fairly good English university, and in dealing with students' essays, I found I had to spend almost as much time discussing the proper use of language as in dealing with the subject itself. Many students were ignorant of the most basic points, e.g. how to use colons and semicolons, how to tell when to use 'ie' or 'ei' in spelling.
 

Black Dog

Ad Honorem
Mar 2008
9,990
Damned England
#13
That's true, but even when I was a kid, you'd meet secondary school teachers who believed that spelling and grammar were far less important than what the writer was trying to say. Of course, deciphering such badly written work is often unnecessarily difficult.

I have met this attitude at university. Just the one lecturer who demanded short, single clause sentences. She even marked me down for using longer but grammatically correct sentences. I appealed and won, but then again, she was a galloping feminist, English Welsh nationalist and I genuinely wonder how on earth she got a lecturer's job.
 
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Feb 2019
2
United States
#15
In the epoch of technology and internet, studying becomes easier. We can google everything that we need. For example, here we have service for essays www.essayyoda.com/best-essay-help, where you can ask professional writers for help. So, as I said, nowadays studying is easier, because students have smartphones, tablets, laptops with the internet, which is the biggest library in the world)
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,292
Brassicaland
#16
Will universities make fools smart or will fools make universities stupid.?
I decide to make the saying more general: Do religions render their followers cads or do cads form religions?
This is a completely different perspective; in the former situation, religions corrupt; in the later, corrupted people form religions, and the religions are corrupted because of the personalities of the founders.
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,292
Brassicaland
#17
That's true, but even when I was a kid, you'd meet secondary school teachers who believed that spelling and grammar were far less important than what the writer was trying to say. Of course, deciphering such badly written work is often unnecessarily difficult.

I have met this attitude at university. Just the one lecturer who demanded short, single clause sentences. She even marked me down for using longer but grammatically correct sentences. I appealed and won, but then again, she was a galloping feminist, English Welsh nationalist and I genuinely wonder how on earth she got a lecturer's job.
The free verse game again:

Correct spelling and syntax,
Clean sentence styles,
Get the messages quicker
and everything is so easy.

Deciphering through
Poorly written sentences,
Ill-organized ideas,
who would like the pain?

All short, single clause
sentences,
prosaic, mundane writings,
hardly get any attentions.

Do you think the employer is somewhat biased as well? We will not get 100% objectivity most of the time, and I admit my biases.
 

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
2,819
Australia
#18
I keep thinking of posting a thread about intelligence, and I think of these three in the Chinese language.
Intelligence Quotient (智商): It usually means the potential and ability to learn and apply learning; with some techniques, it can be enhanced; most of it is innate.
I find that interesting , it is a principle that I had not entered into my schema (see below ) . I have noticed that 'learning ' something, for some, it just does not 'sink in' , is forgotten, misunderstood or not realized how it can be applied - even after further explanation it just 'evaporates'. yet other pick it up quickly, retain, apply and improve their situation and other's situations / lives. I first encountered this years back in looking into Sufism and a principle called 'learning how to learn' .

The idea of enhancing this quality seems very important .

Wisdom (智慧): The life experience and the way to deal with lives and practical events.
Knowledge (知识): The hardcore facts and techniques.
The schema I have been using is based on Kabbalah (in a way) ; on the Tree of Life

1550521120968.png

The top triangle is a triangular relationship between three IDEAL base principles , they are 'above' the other principles and separated by an 'abyss' - there is an 11th sphere (here not shown ) in that abyss, Termed Da'at - 'knowledge' .

The idea seems to be, first there is knowledge ( The hardcore facts and techniques ) , but without the next two principles, knowledge can be dangerous if applied without moderations - " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing ."

Next should come understanding - understandings of what applying that knowledge will lead to and any results that come from it .

Wisdom is knowing when to apply the knowledge / understanding to get specific results to cause certain changes.

For example take the story of King Solomon

Knowledge ; there is one child and two women claim to be the mother,.

Understanding ; He understands human nature and the bonds between mother and child . So he orders the terrible solution of cutting the child in two.

Wisdom ; But he knows it will not come to pass as the real mother will protest, or give up the baby to save it .

Maybe not the best example - the method seems terrible but the outcome (is known to be ) wise .

Most people with college education (or degree holders) are at least "mildly gifted" by IQ.
Yes , but there is a lot of criticism of how we grade IQ . Regardless, lets look at stupidity . I am a bit of a fan of Carlo M. Cipolla in this area.

He designed some tests to see how stupid people where, he tried it out on university students, the level was high. So as a trial, he tried it on the faculty members , lecturers and professors - same % s ! He tried it on many different classes and levels of society - similar results . Apparently it doesnt matter when it comes to stupidity , the percentages are similar across the board .

I also like his definitions of intelligence and stupidity ; an intelligent person is one who comes up with solutions and courses of actions which benefit themselves and others, at the same time . A stupid person is one who comes up with solutions and courses of actions which DO NOT benefit themselves nor others, and can cause harm, at the same time ( he has a further 2 classifications ; 'theif' - takes benefit from others and keeps it for himself and 'victim' hands over benefit to the 'theif' .

So, I feel something else is going on here , with all this 'stupidity about ' .

Anyway, it is an interesting read ; The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity

Carlo M. Cipolla - Wikipedia

The quote from good old George Bernard Shaw: A fool's brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, arts into pedantry. Hence University education.

Should we focus on all three?
Yes, and more. I would say focus on knowledge ( and its problems without regulation or moderation ) , understanding , wisdom (as explained above ) and 'learning how to learn' . This also implies ethics.


How should education be done?
Old style, as well as what we teach now, also the basics of 'hermetics' ; "Man, know thyself." We should learn more about the vehicle that is learning - US . This is badly missing from modern education. Years back I taught the 'main lesson' at the local Steiner school for year 10. I focused on this and developed a curriculum for it ( I won;t go into that now, but will later if anyone wants more info ) .

It was hard to implement , even in an alternative school. The board found it hard to understand what I was talking about. I explained it ; ' Say a student, in latter life comes up against a 'life problem' maybe if he graduated ad went to university and chose to study (lets say ) philosophy or psychology, and learn certain things about human nature, he could use that information to help himself . But the students that didnt go down that path, would miss out. They might learn other things that help them, but then the student of philosophy or psychology misses out on those.

What is needed is a set of teachings that can have a core that can be applied in variant situations and be applicable throughout life.

Of course, another principle is 'learning how to teach' - I and my kids certainly enjoyed their lessons and quickly showed great skill developing. I even got some other teachers sitting in on my lessons . Other teachers commented on how I also had such a good relationship with the class and did not have a whole range of other problems they where having . To me it was obvious why they where having those problems , but not to them . - observation and application of relevant methods ! Very important .

What do you see as some ways to enhance 'the potential and ability to learn and apply learning' ?
 
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specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
2,819
Australia
#20
I've heard lots of good things about this "University of Life", doesn't have upfront tuition fees and no obligation on coursework or dissertations. Is it any good?
Yes. It is the qualifier , where you apply everything you learn in theory and practice. If you cant apply it in the 'University of Life' and 'modify' what you learnt to apply to ' life's changing situations in actuality ' and make an improvement ( the process in this 'University' ), then what you where learning (or how you understood it and applied it ) was a crock of sh*t . . . some useless human head trip .
 

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