Advanced Allied Military Technology (Secret Weapons) in World War 2

redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,368
Stockport Cheshire UK
#61
Jingoist national narcissism.
Merely quoting the words of a German leader of the period, don't know how you can class that as jingoist narcissism.
But the reality, the Mosquitoes were close to nothing in a comparison with Ho-229 or ME 262. And you know it well in the depths of your soul too.
We Brits have a saying "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".
The Mosquito was an effective military aircraft that gave the Luftwaffe nightmares from 1942 until 1945 while the Ho 229 was worthless to the German war effort, and the Me 262 entering service when it did was an act of desperation on behalf of the Luftwaffe, as it wouldn't have entered service with any allied air force due to it's engine problems
 
Nov 2014
1,384
Birmingham, UK
#63
Luftwaffe procurement head from about 1941 was a guy called Udet, an old pal of Goerings (cronyism), Ww1 fighter pilot and serial philanderer and drug addict, with no qualifications for the job (cronyism)

He he I believe a staff of 4000 and something like 25 department heads reporting to him, And knew what none of them were doing.

The same procurement process that produced the flying death trap that was the ME210 and the Heinkel 177, neither of which ever saw proper combat as they couldn't stay in the sky very long, which proved to significantly debilitate their abilities as, uh, flying machines

Just a little example of the excellent rational German war machine at work :)
 

redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,368
Stockport Cheshire UK
#64
Luftwaffe procurement head from about 1941 was a guy called Udet, an old pal of Goerings (cronyism), Ww1 fighter pilot and serial philanderer and drug addict, with no qualifications for the job (cronyism)

He he I believe a staff of 4000 and something like 25 department heads reporting to him, And knew what none of them were doing.

The same procurement process that produced the flying death trap that was the ME210 and the Heinkel 177, neither of which ever saw proper combat as they couldn't stay in the sky very long, which proved to significantly debilitate their abilities as, uh, flying machines

Just a little example of the excellent rational German war machine at work :)
You missed the best one, the Bomber B program

Bomber B - Wikipedia

The reason the Luftwaffe had to mainly press on with mere upgrades of the bombers it started the war with.
 
Jul 2016
7,160
USA
#66
Believe me , personal attacks won't help. I was born in 1975.
I was hoping you were 15 or so, because then I'd feel less shocked then the fact I'm having to discuss this with a 44 year old on a history website.

Are you aware, at all, about the history and culture of Ashkenazi Jews? I already know the answer: No, you're not at all aware. I'm am one, at least enough that the Nazis would have sent my ass to a gas chamber.

They dominated pre-WW2 German academia (and other European nation), especially in soft sciences (history, philosophy, poltical science), but also in medicine, mathematics, physics, chemistry. They are the ones who Hitler and a whole lot of the Germans hated. They dominated the Germany academia, a country they were never truly accepted in (hence major German anti-semitism that didn't just spring up in 1933). Germany didn't previously excel with science because they trained the Ashkenazi Jews, the Ashkenazi dominate academia and the sciences in EVERY COUNTRY THEY LIVE IN.

Previous to WW2 there was no great reason to leave Europe for most of them. The Eastern Europeans were still routinely doing Pograms (which is why most of the Jews of the 19th and early 20th century came to America, a nation of immigrants seeking a better life). It wasn't great for the Jews in Western and Central Europe, but it was bearable, so most stayed. But then when fascism bloomed in the 20-30s in Europe, many left and went to America. Where they were immediately hired as academics and scientists, because they were highly skilled. Why did they leave? Simple, Europeans were upping the rhetoric on anti-semitism, culminating with the Holocaust.

You're very proud of the German Jews but the German people aren't responsible for their successes. That's utterly ridiculous to claim such. You've mentioned Nobel prizes. Go, get a list of all the pre-war Nobels that Germans were awarded. Then compare it to this list. If you have any shred of honor you'll not reply until you cross examine them. At which point if you're an honest person you'll come back here and admit freely that German society has no right to claim ownership of Jewish accomplishments, especially after what they did from 1930 onwards.

You want to claim that Germany was an industrialized nation, absolutely true. That they possessed skilled scientists and academics that weren't jews, absolutely true. But trying to take credit for what the Jews did at about the same time most of the population of Germany wanted them either gone or dead, that is absolutely detestable.
 

redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,368
Stockport Cheshire UK
#67
You want to claim that Germany was an industrialized nation, absolutely true. That they possessed skilled scientists and academics that weren't jews, absolutely true. But trying to take credit for what the Jews did at about the same time most of the population of Germany wanted them either gone or dead, that is absolutely detestable.
In 1935 the Nazi government classed all Jews as non-citizens, merely state subjects.
In the eyes of the German state they were no longer German.
 
Jul 2016
7,160
USA
#68
In 1935 the Nazi government classed all Jews as non-citizens, merely state subjects.
In the eyes of the German state they were no longer German.
Yep. Nuremberg Laws were a bitch, any smart Jew got the hell out of town.

But even before that, at best they were tolerated. Anti-semitism was rife in Germany for a very long time. Even though they dominated German academia, the hard and soft sciences, brought enlightenment to the scores of generations of ethnic Germans, in the end they got blamed for banking/economic woes, creating and promoting socialism/communism, and other stuff, and that was when Hitler was a kid. Ethnic Germans embraced the Nazis because anti-semitism was extremely popular, it was one of the core beliefs that most political ideologies in Germany embraced throughout the late 19th-20th centuries.

Just to show America wasn't super perfect, it existed in spades there too. The only thing was the checks and balances in the system through the Constitution, and the opportunities the US provides for the stellar to succeed, they rose quickly too in American society and my nation is better for it.
 

Bart Dale

Ad Honorem
Dec 2009
6,469
#69
The radar superiority is not a fact, just a nationalist fantasy in your head.
Cavity Magnetron Tubes were first produced for RAF by the British TUNGSRAM in London. The Hungarian-British corporation was the highest quality (And most expensive) producer of any type of radio tubes (incl. cavity magnetron) in the UK. Hungarians also produced cavity magnetron tubes in Hungarian Tungsram that time. Both Hungarian and British Tungsram firms were the Rolls-Royce of electron tubes in the pre 1945 era.
The British did have the best radar, but they did turn to the American electronics manufacturing to produce large scale radar. The British made the most expensive magnetron, but that is not what you want for combat, you want to mass produce them as cheap as possible and that is where.the Americans in in.

The British also developed the proximity fuses, which the Americans improved upon and manufactured. The proximity fuse gave the Allies a decisive edge in anti-air craft fire, since the anti-aircraft shell would explode when they got near an airplane and did not need to get a direct hit or have to be set to explode at a present height like the Axis, making the Allied anti-aircraft fire more effective.

And it was the American Wright Brothers who built the fist successful airplane and the first wind tunnel, and first effective controls of airplanes, which was fundamental to success aircraft.

And the work of the German rocket scientist was dependent on the earlier work of the American Goddard, who developed the first liquid fuel rockets, the basis for all modern space rockets.

The fact is is that the American fighter planes such as the P51 were superior to the German fighters, being faster and having longer range. The Germans had a lot of interesting ideas, but most never saw combat, and having superior technology available in combat was more important than better technology in prototype.



German Hans Erich (Eric) Hollmann invents the cavity magnetron in 1935 ,filed a patent in 1936 long before the Brits and granted a patent only in 1938 ..
And the entire electronic vacuum tube industry depended on the discovery of Edison of the Edison Effect, and de Forrest making the first practical electronic amplifier. The fact remains the Allied radar was superior to Axis, including German radar. Superior Allied radar gave them decisive edge over Germany and the other Axis countries.

Yes , Randall and Boot improved it significantly and built a advanced version with more than 4 cavities in 1940 but they didn't invent anything ! they simply copied ,worked on and improved an existing technology.
And all the German airplanes could be said to be improvement on the Wright Brothers in the the same way. The principle of using batteries underwater and internal combustion engines on the surface to propel the sub and recharg the batteries was pioneered by Holland in the US, so you could say the German U-boats were mere improvements on the basic design too.

The fact was the Allied radar was better. The Allied (British and later American) succeeded in making effective proximity fuses, something the Germans failed at. I

Americans build atom bomb from the knowledge of an invention of Hungarian E. Teller and German or German educated scientists who left nazi Germany because of political reasons. Americans were taught by European scientists about nuclear physics until the mid 1950s.
It was the Americans who discovered the speed of light was a constant in the Michelson-Morely experiment, an experiment critical to Einstein's theory of relativity. The American Lawrence built the first cyclotron, and received the 1939 Nobel Physics prize, so American was not as completely devoid of physicist as you claim.

And without the production of plutonium, or chemical concentration of uranium, the atomic bomb would not be possible. The construction of the atomic bomb was a truly international effort, the combined effort of scientist from many countries. Enrico Fermi, an Italian, and others were responsible for the world's first nuclear reactor. While.many, most of the scientist that worked on the atomic bomb program were European, many of them were not German, and the thing they had in common was the fascist policies of the Axis countries driving them to the US.

The fact is, despite all the vaunted claims for the Germans, they were inferior in electronics, their radar inferior, and never managed to develop a proximity fuse like the Allies. The planes they put in service for the most part were inferior to the Allied, having no heavy to compare to a Lancaster, or B17 or B29, and no fighter with the range of a P51, and only a few late models German planes late in the war in limited numbers could match its speed. German jets were all very well, but it would have been more helpful to have faster and longer range conventional planes when it mattered, like in the Battle of Britain.
 
Last edited:
Dec 2014
339
Wales
#70
"It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy. The British, who can afford aluminum better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again. What do you make of that? There is nothing the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops. After the war is over I’m going to buy a British radio set – then at least I’ll own something that has always worked"- H Goering
I always get annoyed at the way everyone says 'the Germans were more advanced than the allies because they built jets' while never asking if attempting to develop jets was actually a good idea. The construction technology of the Mossie was arguably closer to first world war than cold war (wooden construction, built in small factories widely spread before final construction), yet it was far more effective as a war weapon than the ME 262:

It was easier and cheaper to produce:
Easier for pilots to learn on:
A more versatile weapon, capable of performing as both both bomber and fighter:
All while being capable of speeds that, for at least part of the war, made it one of the fastest aircraft in the skies.

Capable of carrying a heavy armament, radar, high and low altitude operations it was in many ways one of the first modern multi-role aircraft.