advice on books on Roman, Greek, and Persian History

Mar 2013
1,441
Escandinavia y Mesopotamia
#4
Gibbon’s “Decline and Fall” from 1700’s is outdated and no longer used as curriculum when educating students of history at universities these days in the 2000’s. His theories behind the fall of Rome and his thoughts on Middle Ages have been thoroughly refuted by the scholars as the rise of the academia and scholarships have been the decline and fall of Gibbonic teaching.

On the Persians Gibbon had a sort of racist approach towards them where he depicted them as some sort of people that was inclined into despotic behavior because of their race and that they had bad influences on other people. Hardly a good recommendation of learning about Persian history.
 
Mar 2013
1,441
Escandinavia y Mesopotamia
#6
That article above doesn’t provide any convincing arguments why such outdated and suspicious works of Gibbon and his louse are good scholarships in 2017. – Not to mention that the author neither is a historian.

I have explained recently why the birth and rise of the academia have been the decline and fall of Gibbonic teaching in my post number 6 and 15 here:

http://historum.com/history-book-reviews/125124-so-then-how-should-one-read-gibbon.html

Livy, Caesar, Tacitus, Suetonius, Plutarch, Ovid, Horacio, Cicero, Virgil, Seneca and Strabon are all contemporary persons who lived during Roman time and who had firsthand information to many things we don’t might find other places.

Gibbon in contrary is just a person many centuries later who interpreted and misinterpreted the sources above, and is thus what we may call a “secondary source”. – You learn basically nothing about the past, you only learn what people during Gibbon’s lifetime thought about the past.

So the analogy with Livy and Gibbon is a bad one. – It would be more accurate to compare Gibbon with persons such of Karl Marx whose works also are rejected by the academia.
 
Oct 2013
313
Australia
#7
Gibbon’s “Decline and Fall” from 1700’s is outdated and no longer used as curriculum when educating students of history at universities these days in the 2000’s. His theories behind the fall of Rome and his thoughts on Middle Ages have been thoroughly refuted by the scholars as the rise of the academia and scholarships have been the decline and fall of Gibbonic teaching.

On the Persians Gibbon had a sort of racist approach towards them where he depicted them as some sort of people that was inclined into despotic behavior because of their race and that they had bad influences on other people. Hardly a good recommendation of learning about Persian history.
Just a head's up: El Cid is a known-hater of Gibbon. No disrespect to El Cid, but it seems to me he is biased and has an ax to grind. My view is that the consensus on Gibbon in this forum is that his Decline and Fall is a classic and still deserves to be read these days. I've read the unabridged Decline and Fall in full, and I am currently 2/3 through my second read. I'm enjoying it even more the second time around, as I am now more familiar with the period he is discussing so I am finding it easier to understand some of his more obscure passages, etc.
 
Oct 2013
313
Australia
#8
My Recommendations

GREECE
ARRIAN - Anabasis of Alexander
BURY, JB - A History of Greece to the Death of Alexander the Great
BUCKLER, John & BECK, Hans - Central Greece and the Politics of Power in the 4th Century
CHANIOTIS, Angeleos - War in the Hellenistic War
COLDSTREAM, JN - Geometric Greece, 900-700 BC
GROTE, George - A History of Greece
HERODOTUS - The History
HESIOD - Homeric Hymns; Homerica
HESIOD - Theogony; Works and Days; Testimonia
MITFORD, William - History of Greece
MULLER, Karl Otfried - The History and Antiquities of the Doric Race
KINZL, Konrad H - A Companion to the Classical Greek World
OBER, Josiah - Democracy and Knowledge: Innovation and Learning in Classical Athens
OBER, Josiah - Mass and Elite in Democratic Athens: Rhetoric, Ideology, and the Power of the People
OBER, Josiah - Political Dissent in Democratic Athens: Intellectual Critics of Popular Rule
OBER, Josiah - Origins of Democracy in Ancient Greece
PAUSANIUS - Descriptions of Greece
PLUTARCH - Lives
ROSTOVTZEFF, Michael Ivanovitch - The Social and Economic History of hte Hellenistic World
THUCYDIDES - History of the Pelopponesian War
XENOPHON - Agesilaus
XENOPHON - Anabasis
XENOPHON - Cyropaedia
XENOPHON - Hellenica

ROME
APPIAN - Roman History
AURELIUS - Meditations
BAGNALL, Nigel - The Punic Wars 264-146 BC
BAKER, Simon - Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire
BAUMAN, Richard A - Crime and Punishment in Ancient Rome
BAUMAN, Richard A - Human Rights in Ancient Rome
BEARD, Mary - SPQR: A History of Ancient Rome
BEARD, Mary - Pompeii
BEARD, Mary & HOPKINS, Keith - The Colosseum
BEARD, Mary & NORTH, John & PRICE, Simon - Religions of Ancient Rome
BENNETT, Julian - Trajan: Optimus Princeps
BIRLEY, Anthony R - Marcus Aurelius: A Biography
BUCKLAND, William Warwick - The Roman Law of Slavery: The Conditions of the Slave in Private Law from Augustus to Justinian
BURY, JB - A History of the Roman Empire from its Foundation to the Death of Marcus Aurelius
CAESAR, Julius - Alexandrian War; African War; Spanish War
CAESAR, Julius - Civil Wars
CAESAR, Julius - Gallic War
DIO, Cassius - Roman History
DIONYSUS, Halicarnassus - Roman Antiquities
GIBBON, Edward - The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
GUGLIELMO, Ferrero - The Greatness and Decline of Rome
HALSALL, Guy - Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West, 376-568
HARRIS, William V - War and Imperialism in Republican Rome, 327-70 BC
HEATHER, Peter - The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians
GOLDSWORTHY, Adrian - Augustus: The First Emperor of Rome
GOLDSWORTHY, Adrian - Caesar: Life of a Colossus
GRAINGER, John - Nerva and the Roman Succession Crisis
JOSEPHUS, Flavius - The Jewish War
JULIUS, The Apostate - Works
KYLE, Donald G - Spectacles of Death in Ancient Rome
LEADBETTER, Bill - Galerius and the Will of Diocletian
LEVICK, Barbara - Tiberius: The Politician
LEVICK, Barbara - Vespasian
LIVY, Titus Patavinus - History of Rome
LUCIAN - Works
MOMMSEN, Theodor - History of Rome
MOMMSEN, Theodor - The Provinces of the Roman Empire
MOUSOURAKIS, George - A Legal History of Rome
NIEBUHR, Barthold Georg - History of Rome
NIEBUHR, Barthold Georg - Lectures on the History of Rome from the Earliest Times to the Fall of the Western Empire
ODAHL, Chalres Matson - Constantine and the Christian Empire
O'FLYNN, John Michael - Generalissimos of the Western Roman Empire
PLUTARCH - Lives
POLYBIUS - The Histories
SALLUST, Gaius Crispus - Conspiracy of Catiline
SALLUST, Gaius Crispus - Jugurthine War
SALLUST, Gaius Crispus - Histories
SCOTT, Kenneth - The Imperial Cult under the Flavians
SCULLARD, HH - From the Gracchi to Nero
SOUTHERN, Pat - Empress Zenobia: Palmyra's Rebel Queen
SOUTHERN, Pat - The Roman Army: A Social and Institutional History
SOUTHERN, Pat - The Roman Empire from Severus to Constantine
SUETONIUS, Gaius Tranquilus - Lives of the Caesars
TACITUS, Publius Cornelius - Annals
TACITUS, Publius Cornelius - Histories
WHITTAKER, CR - Rome and its Frontiers: The Dynamics of Empire
WIEDEMANN, Thomas - Emperors and Gladiators
WILCOX, Peter & TREVINO, Rafael - Barbarians Against Rome
WILLIAMS, Stephen & FRIELL, Gerard - Theodosius: The Empire at Bay
ZONARAS - The History
ZOSIMUS - New History
ZUIDERHOEK, Arjan - The Politics of Munificence in the Roman Empire: Citizens, Elites and Benefactors in Asia Minor

BYZANTIUM
BROWNING, Robert - The Byzantine Empire
BROWNWORTH, Lars - Lost to the West: The Forgotten Byzantine Empire That Rescued Western Civilization
BRYER, Anthony & URSINUS, Michael - Manzikert to Lepanto: The Byzantine World and the Turks, 1071-1571
BURY, JB - A History of the Eastern Roman Empire from the Fall of Irene to the Accession of Basil I
BURY, JB - A History of the Later Roman Empire from Arcadius to Irene
BURY, JB - A History of the Later Roman Empire from the Death of Theodosius I to the Death of Justinian
CAMERON, Averil - The Byzantines
CROWLEY, Roger - Constantinople 1453: The Last Great Siege
DOUKAS - Decline and Fall of Byzantium to the Ottoman Turks
GREGORY, Timothy E - A History of Byzantium
HALDON, John F - Byzantium at War, AD 600-1453
HALDON, John F - Byzantium in the Seventh Century: The Transformation of a Culture
HALDON, John - The Empire That Would Not Die: The Paradox of Eastern Roman Survival, 640-740
HALDON, John F - Warfare, State and Society in the Byzantine World, 565-1204
HENDY, Michael F - Studies in the Byzantine Monetary Economy, c 300-1450
HERRIN, Judith - Byzantium: The Surprising Life of a Medieval Empire
HUGHES, Ian - Belisarius: The Last Roman General
LAIOU, Angeliki (ed) - The Economic History of Byzantium: From the Seventh through the Fifteenth Century
LAIOU, Angeliki & MORRISON, Cecile - The Byzantine Economy
LAIOU, Angeliki & SIMON, Dieter - Law and Society in Byzantium: Ninth-Twelfth Centuries
LUTTWAK, Edward N - The Grand Strategy of the Byzantine Empire
NICOLLE, David - Constantinople 1453: The End of Byzantium
NORWICH, John Julius - Byzantium: A Short History
NORWICH, John Julius - Byzantium: The Early Centuries
NORWICH, John Julius - Byzantium: The Apogee
NORWICH, John Julius - Byzantium: The Decline and Fall
OBOLENSKY, Dimitri - The Byzantine Commonwealth: Eastern Europe, 500-1453
PORPHYROGENITOS, Constantine - De Administrando Imperio
PORPHYROGENITOS, Constantine - Tres Tractatus De Expeditionibus Militaribus Imperatoris
PROCOPIUS - History of the Wars
PROCOPIUS - The Secret History
STEPHENSON, Paul - Byzantium's Balkan Frontier
TOYNBEE, Arnold - Constantine Porphyrogenitus and His World
TREADGOLD, Warren - A History of the Byzantine State and Society
TREADGOLD, Warren - Byzantium and its Army, 284-1081
TREADGOLD, Warren - The Byzantine Revival
TREADGOLD, Warren - The Middle Byzantine Historians
VASILIEV, AA - History of the Byzantine Empire
VASILIEV, AA - Justin the First: An Introduction to the Epoch of Justinian the Great
WILLIAMS, Stephen & FRIELL, Gerard - The Rome That Did Not Fall: The Survival of the East in the Fifth Century

PERSIA
BRIANT, Pierre - From Cyrus to Alexander: A History of the Persian Empire
FIRDAUSI - The Epic of Kings: Hero Tales of Ancient Persia
MARKHAM, Clements Roberts - A General Sketch of the History of Persia
MIRKHOND - History of the Early Kings of Persia
RAWLINSON, George - The Seven Great Monarchies of the Ancient Eastern World, Vol 5: Persia
RAWLINSON, George - The Seven Great Monarchies of the Ancient Eastern World, Vol 7: The Sassanian or New Persian Empire
POURSHARIATI, Parvaneh - Decline and Fall of the Sasanian Empire: The Sasanian-Parthian Confederacy and the Arab Conquest of Iran

CAMBRIDGE HISTORIES
Cambridge Ancient History
Cambridge Economic History of the Greco-Roman World
Cambridge History of Greek and Roman Warfare
Cambridge History of Hellenistic Warfare
Cambridge History of Iran
Cambridge History of the Byzantine Empire
Cambridge Medieval History
 
Mar 2013
1,441
Escandinavia y Mesopotamia
#9
Just a head's up: El Cid is a known-hater of Gibbon. No disrespect to El Cid, but it seems to me he is biased and has an ax to grind. My view is that the consensus on Gibbon in this forum is that his Decline and Fall is a classic and still deserves to be read these days. I've read the unabridged Decline and Fall in full, and I am currently 2/3 through my second read. I'm enjoying it even more the second time around, as I am now more familiar with the period he is discussing so I am finding it easier to understand some of his more obscure passages, etc.
No more than that you are a known lover of Gibbon and his suspicious materials. :)

What you feel is totally irrelevant as the academia don’t care with what your feelings are. The most important thing is that you(and other Gibbono-philos as well) cannot address the points of mine as you probably lack some basic knowledge of scientific theory and how the profession of history works these days in the 21 th century.

Here from the Yale at a course about Late Antiquity:

From 28:02:



“Gibbon in particular, emphasizes the tolerance of Rome which appealed to his innate anti-clergyism and as many of you know his explanation for the fall of the empire was Christianity. It was Christianity that weakened the empire, weakened its elite, turns its attention to foolish controversies over Trinitarian or Christological concerns when they should have been concentrating on the barbarians. But this is not accepted anymore for reasons that will become clearer in these first few weeks.”

We also hear from him that Gibbon was wrong with his myth making of the so-called "Burning Library of Alexandria" that never existed, or that his works have myriads of inaccuracies.

And that was more or less what was stated when I had Roman history in the first semester as student of history at the Uni, and that was also what Peter Brown is suggesting just as the rest of the academia in which is further elaborated in that other thread mentioned earlier.

Some suckers here may eventual follow the miserable advice of yours, but this is not something I would hold my breath as I have more respect for the modern academia than I have for your words. Sorry. :)
 
Oct 2013
313
Australia
#10
As to the library of Alexandria Gibbon is not very credulous about the stories of the Khalif saying "if they agree with the prophet then we know it already otherwise it deserves to burn". If you actually read Gibbon carefully he says most of the knowledge in the library was already lost centuries before the invasion...


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