African civilization and Arabs

Mar 2017
854
Colorado
#21
That "African Civilization" map is grossly oversimplified.

I've been reading Al Yaq'udi, thanks to a previous poster. He wrote around 880 ACE. You can argue that there has ALWAYS been a slave trade, but the "Arab Slave Trade" is generally considered Medieval times.

Al Yaq'udi lists 7 kingdoms between the Nile & the Red Sea. About a dozen in Sudan...and then he starts listing more (diagonally I think) until he gets back to Morocco. I could cut&paste but there's PAGES of the stuff.
 

Ighayere

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
2,509
Benin City, Nigeria
#24
Well, as I understand it the origins of Gao are a little obscure, but archaeological evidence seems to indicate that it developed in the course of the 8th century,
No, this is not accurate.

I'll elaborate later when I have more time, plus comment on the rest of your statement.
 

Isleifson

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,599
Lorraine tudesque
#25
The earliest Arab sources on the Ghana empire and the Gao empire (which was the predecessor of the later Songhai empire) describe them in positive terms. They were already well established states, and there were numerous other kingdoms in the region, many of them paying tribute or some kind of homage to these states (Ghana and Gao). These didn't develop because of the trans-Saharan trade.

As for writing, a more fully developed writing system would have eventually developed anyway (if one did not exist which we can no longer find), since remnants of old pictographic writing systems with no connection to Arabic were found in the western Sudan area:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2794448?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

D. Zahan - "Pictographic Writing in the Western Sudan" (1950)

These writing systems were widely understood and were used by both children and adults.

Further south in Africa than the western Sudan region, the states that developed did not do so because of the trans-Saharan trade with North Africans. Some of these states even further south, reached relatively high levels of development (great architecture, great art, extensive trade, complex religious beliefs, etc.), and here there are some references to distinct/independent writing systems being used as well.
There are Petroglyphs all over the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroglyph
 

Isleifson

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,599
Lorraine tudesque
#27
Of course your link was about what in science you call Petroglyphs.

As it happens I am heavily involved in this matter. It is my personal opinion that Petroglyps are a kind of early writing, but this is my opinion and not the commun wisdom.
 

Ighayere

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
2,509
Benin City, Nigeria
#29
Of course your link was about what in science you call Petroglyphs.
Well I don't think it was.I think the term petroglyph usually refers to very old rock art, which isn't really what I think the article is about.

As it happens I am heavily involved in this matter. It is my personal opinion that Petroglyps are a kind of early writing, but this is my opinion and not the commun wisdom.
Maybe. It's not impossible.
 

Isleifson

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,599
Lorraine tudesque
#30
Petroglyphes are still used today.

Your link is very interesting and I even agree with this gentleman.

But again that's just me-not the commun wisdom.
 

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