After a German WWI victory, the United Baltic Duchy adopts an "open borders" policy for Europeans other than Russians

Jan 2019
99
Finland
#11
So, there's no realistic way for the United Baltic Duchy to open its doors to all European ethnic groups other than Russians wide open? I was thinking that bringing new ethnic groups (such as Poles and Ukrainians) to settle in the Baltics might serve Baltic German interests due to the Baltic Germans having the opportunity to play off these groups against the local Balts.
In the scenario you propose the people most inclined to "colonise" it would be Germans as they had been since the times of the German Knightly Orders. I don't see why they would care about bringing in any other groups as the Germans had been quite effective in ruling the region under various overlords like Swedes and Russians. Just repress the nationalists, no need to bring more balls to the juggle.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#12
In the scenario you propose the people most inclined to "colonise" it would be Germans as they had been since the times of the German Knightly Orders. I don't see why they would care about bringing in any other groups as the Germans had been quite effective in ruling the region under various overlords like Swedes and Russians. Just repress the nationalists, no need to bring more balls to the juggle.
I don't think that too many Germans would actually be willing to move there since the Baltics might have been more comparable to eastern Germany than to western Germany, though. In Imperial German times there was a large-scale movement (Ostflucht) of people from eastern Germany to western Germany because life was much better in the more industrialized, more prosperous, and more developed western Germany. In the years leading up to 1907, 2.3 million people left eastern Germany while only 0.358 million people actually moved to eastern Germany. Why would the Baltics have been any different from eastern Germany in regards to this?

For groups such as Poles and Ukrainians (and even Eastern European Jews), the choice isn't moving from a relatively developed area to an underdeveloped area but rather moving from one underdeveloped area to another underdeveloped area.
 
Likes: pugsville
Jan 2019
99
Finland
#13
I don't think that too many Germans would actually be willing to move there since the Baltics might have been more comparable to eastern Germany than to western Germany, though. In Imperial German times there was a large-scale movement (Ostflucht) of people from eastern Germany to western Germany because life was much better in the more industrialized, more prosperous, and more developed western Germany. In the years leading up to 1907, 2.3 million people left eastern Germany while only 0.358 million people actually moved to eastern Germany. Why would the Baltics have been any different from eastern Germany in regards to this?

For groups such as Poles and Ukrainians (and even Eastern European Jews), the choice isn't moving from a relatively developed area to an underdeveloped area but rather moving from one underdeveloped area to another underdeveloped area.
RIght, and the only group of people I could see being facilitated to move to the Baltics by Germany would be Germans. Whether Germans would like to move there I don't know.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,382
#14
In the scenario you propose the people most inclined to "colonise" it would be Germans as they had been since the times of the German Knightly Orders. I don't see why they would care about bringing in any other groups as the Germans had been quite effective in ruling the region under various overlords like Swedes and Russians. Just repress the nationalists, no need to bring more balls to the juggle.
To large extent those Germans seeking to go to the Baltics and advocating annexing/puppet states in the Baltics had a Junker/Colonialist/Overlord mentally , the Balts would be doing all the work as an underclass, Germans were not going to migrate to be simple peasants but farmers supported by a working balt peasant underclass. And as such it was not the bais for eitehrmass migration or even a workable arrangement in the long run. Mass migration is aboutthe peasnatry/urban poor for which the Baltics had no particular attarction, they were not goingto competee for labor with the Baltic underclass, any settlement of land was going to estates rather than individual farms (because the Junker class or aspiring class was driving this idea) Ultamitely it was a unrealistic fantasy.

Well that's my opinion.

I have a book "The Baltic States and Weimar Ostpolitik" (john Hiden)
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#15
To large extent those Germans seeking to go to the Baltics and advocating annexing/puppet states in the Baltics had a Junker/Colonialist/Overlord mentally , the Balts would be doing all the work as an underclass, Germans were not going to migrate to be simple peasants but farmers supported by a working balt peasant underclass. And as such it was not the bais for eitehrmass migration or even a workable arrangement in the long run. Mass migration is aboutthe peasnatry/urban poor for which the Baltics had no particular attarction, they were not goingto competee for labor with the Baltic underclass, any settlement of land was going to estates rather than individual farms (because the Junker class or aspiring class was driving this idea) Ultamitely it was a unrealistic fantasy.

Well that's my opinion.

I have a book "The Baltic States and Weimar Ostpolitik" (john Hiden)
If the Germans were smart, they'd allow unrestricted Latvian and Estonian immigration into Germany. That should improve the lives of a good number of Latvians and Estonians and also help boost Germany's Protestant majority.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,382
#16
If the Germans were smart, they'd allow unrestricted Latvian and Estonian immigration into Germany. That should improve the lives of a good number of Latvians and Estonians and also help boost Germany's Protestant majority.
I fail to see how the protestant majority matters. They can intergrate lativians and Estonians but catholic Germans are a problem? I don;t see how it;s more in their interests to integrate one over the other. If they can't get along with catholic Germans them I fail see how they have any hope of dealing with Baltic peoples fairly.

'
 
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Futurist

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May 2014
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SoCal
#17
I fail to see how the protestant majority matters. They can intergrate lativians and Estonians but catholic Germans are a problem? I don;t see how it;s more in their interests to integrate one over the other. If they can't get along with catholic Germans them I fail see how they have any hope of dealing with Baltic peoples fairly.

'
Unfortunately Imperial Germany's leadership does appear to have viewed Catholics as a political threat. Protestant Minorities--such as the Memellanders or the Masurians--might have been viewed in a more favorable light by the Imperial German leadership than Catholics were.
 
Jan 2019
99
Finland
#18
If the Germans were smart, they'd allow unrestricted Latvian and Estonian immigration into Germany. That should improve the lives of a good number of Latvians and Estonians and also help boost Germany's Protestant majority.
Why would Germany care about Latvians and Estonians? Just because there was tension between the more secular protestants and catholics doesn't mean they were inclined to be inclusive toward non-German protestants.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#19
Why would Germany care about Latvians and Estonians? Just because there was tension between the more secular protestants and catholics doesn't mean they were inclined to be inclusive toward non-German protestants.
Did the Masurians and Memellanders actually have it bad in Imperial Germany?