Akhenaten (Box, Carter Archive 001K)

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,536
Bendigo
Yes, the introduction of a "Royal factor" into the biography of Tjuyu makes the whole scenario better contextualized. The reconstruction [2] can stand. About the age of Nefertiti when she got married, if Amenhotep III and Tiye thought for real that she had to be a potential coregent [in case their second son failed], she had to be around 15. This would mean that she was born around 1366 BCE [keeping 1351 BCE as reference for when Amenhotep III - Akhenaten got the crowns]. If we consider the earliest possible date for the birth of Amenhotep III, 1400 BCE, we could have enough time for Prince Thutmose to be adult and have a couple of daughters.
This hypothesis at least ticks some boxes, with no pivotal evidence I know of to discount it. That is not evidence or proof, I know, but it’s a neat hyposis nonetheless.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,971
Lago Maggiore, Italy
But there is Thutmose IV ‘Menkhkheperure’ and a famous snake pharaoh by name ‘Maatkare’, both in the 18th Dynasty... Right throughout the Dynasty names get reused. Is it coincidence that ‘S’menkh-kare’ adopts an element of a candidate for Nefertiti’s grandfather, and an element from a famous Royal female king before her in the Dynasty? Surely, names were carefully coined. Possibly to invoke memories of former kings (and female kings)? Just a thought.
Well, Thutmose IV was "Men-Kheperu-re" [Stable Forms of Ra].
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,971
Lago Maggiore, Italy
This hypothesis at least ticks some boxes, with no pivotal evidence I know of to discount it. That is not evidence or proof, I know, but it’s a neat hyposis nonetheless.
We could see if it's possible at least to find some pieces of a context ... Sitamun ... Never depicted? I remember to have seen her. I have to check where and in which context.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,536
Bendigo
That is to say ...

1400 BCE Amenhotep III was born.

We can say that from around 1385 BCE he was able to have children without problems. Let's say that he waited to be King: we reach 1388-1386BCE. If Prince Thutmose was born in those years ... let's be cautious: Thutmose was born in 1385 BCE. He would have had Nefertiti at 19. Absolutely possible.

There would be some problems considering the other limit for the birth of Amenhotep III: 1390BCE. In this case, thinking that Thutmose was born around 1375 BCE, Nefertiti cannot be born before of 1360BCE, so she was a little girl around 9 when she got married with Amenhotep IV - Akhenaten. And this would exclude that there was a plan about her as a possible coregent.
But a plan as a Hereditary Princess to give her husband children when she was ready. Child marriages did occur. Amenophis III may have been shoring up the future and ensuring there were ‘two’ heirs to continue the royal bloodline. Nefertiti may have presented as insurance for a ‘pure’ bloodline.

Edit: If Amenophis III was very fond of both Thutmose and Sitamun, he may have wished to see them continue in the direct bloodline.
 
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AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,971
Lago Maggiore, Italy
I remember
But a plan as a Hereditary Princess to give her husband children when she was ready. Child marriages did occur. Amenophis III may have been shoring up the future and ensuring there were ‘two’ heirs to continue the royal bloodline. Nefertiti may have presented as insurance for a ‘pure’ bloodline.
This is possible and actually considering the coregency between father and son, there was the time for Nefertiti to become enough adult to serve in case of necessity.

Btw, about Sitamun I have remembered that somewhere there is her throne and looking around I've found out that it was in the tomb of Tiye's parents [her grandparents, Yuya and Tjuyu], may be that throne can tell us something about her [like the throne of Tut]. I'm going to take a look at it.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,536
Bendigo
I remember


This is possible and actually considering the coregency between father and son, there was the time for Nefertiti to become enough adult to serve in case of necessity.

Btw, about Sitamun I have remembered that somewhere there is her throne and looking around I've found out that it was in the tomb of Tiye's parents [her grandparents, Yuya and Tjuyu], may be that throne can tell us something about her [like the throne of Tut]. I'm going to take a look at it.
There were three childhood chairs of Sitamun in her grandparents tomb, I seem to remember.

Btw i was only just thinking: did Sitamun die in childbirth? Is that why Tey was wet nurse? When did Sitamun disappear?
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,971
Lago Maggiore, Italy
[A page about Sitamun's throne Throne of Princess Sitamun - Wikipedia]

For what I can see [front part] the chair [or throne] had made when Sitamun was still a Princess [we can see her doubled with the aspect of a teen and the hieroglyphics present her as "Sitamun, Great Royal Daughter, Beloved of His Body"; there isn't an indication that she was already wife and there is no cartouche surrounding her name]. Then there is the explanation of what the girl is doing: she is carrying god from the South.

But on the rear [on WIKI page I don't see it] there are the cartouches of Sitamun and Nebmaatre [Throne Name of Amenhotep III]. This means that she used it as chair at the beginning and then, afte becoming Great Royal Wife, as throne.

The fact that it's in the tomb of her grandparents, being her throne, could mean that she was already dead. Or that that changed the usage of the object to burial accessory.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,971
Lago Maggiore, Italy
There were three childhood chairs of Sitamun in her grandparents tomb, I seem to remember.

Btw i was only just thinking: did Sitamun die in childbirth? Is that why Tey was wet nurse? When did Sitamun disappear?
As for I know, there is an inscription on a jar attesting that she became Great Royal Wife around Year 30. Around 1356 BCE ... So about 4 years before that Amenhotep IV - Akhenaten begun to reign she was still alive.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,536
Bendigo
[A page about Sitamun's throne Throne of Princess Sitamun - Wikipedia]

For what I can see [front part] the chair [or throne] had made when Sitamun was still a Princess [we can see her doubled with the aspect of a teen and the hieroglyphics present her as "Sitamun, Great Royal Daughter, Beloved of His Body"; there isn't an indication that she was already wife and there is no cartouche surrounding her name]. Then there is the explanation of what the girl is doing: she is carrying god from the South.

But on the rear [on WIKI page I don't see it] there are the cartouches of Sitamun and Nebmaatre [Throne Name of Amenhotep III]. This means that she used it as chair at the beginning and then, afte becoming Great Royal Wife, as throne.

The fact that it's in the tomb of her grandparents, being her throne, could mean that she was already dead. Or that that changed the usage of the object to burial accessory.

As for I know, there is an inscription on a jar attesting that she became Great Royal Wife around Year 30. Around 1356 BCE ... So about 4 years before that Amenhotep IV - Akhenaten begun to reign she was still alive.
The chair/throne size is of interest, I think. For a child?

If Great Royal Wife around Yr 30, then it would not seem she was wife of Thutmose. The jar you mention: have you sighted it?
 

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