Akhenaten (Box, Carter Archive 001K)

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,354
Lago Maggiore, Italy
P.S. in similar sentences we can see the usage of the terms for Queen and King [similar to what we intend today, we don't see Lady and Lord, but Queen and Sovereign] and it's licit to use the modern terms.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,354
Lago Maggiore, Italy
Paragraph 1: ‘Among the ones with “dark areas” in their offspring they needed to find a Hereditary Princess.’ I don’t know what you mean here.

Paragraph 2: ‘Tey was nurse of Nefertiti and Handmaid of Akhenaten, but... also tutor of Nefertiti.’ This sounds to me like Nefertiti and Akhenaten (read ‘Amenophis’ here???) grew up together as children. Is that what this implies? What is a ‘handmaid’ btw? What role does she perform?

Paragraph 3: little unclear what your connection is here? Are you saying that she was a ‘Hereditary Princess’ (a Royal) already and now a queen as well? It was not a title she obtained AFTER becoming Queen?
The problem with when a woman acquired the title Hereditary Prince is that we can only observe what has been recorded. This work can be useful: http://nebula.wsimg.com/a3dd668d65d...04C32DB5A7CBCB15E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

The conclusion of the author makes sense [as for I can know]

So what could it mean? It seems to me that the most likely meaning of this title is that
the title bearer had a parent or grandparent who was the son or daughter or sister or
brother of a King. Thus the bearer could also be the mother, sister or daughter of a King
and for example the granddaughter of a King, or the niece of a king or some other one
step removed relationship; it seems likely that this relationship could come through either parent.
We are talking about the real noble Royal title, not the honorific one. So who carried it, according to what we can infer observing what happened, had to have a Royal relative somewhere.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,354
Lago Maggiore, Italy
The relevant point is WHEN and WHERE that title had written and shown. Now, regarding this, I haven't got clears ideas. Thinking to Nefertiti, on the boundary stelae in the Earlier Declaration this title is present, but in many other occasions it's absent. This could mean that it was a title with a particular meaning to use only in particular occasions: we have seen that they tent to write all the titles, if it was possible. So if "Hereditary Princess" was rarely written there has to be a reason.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,077
Bendigo
Actually there are titles there, not names. It's said "nurse and tutoress of the Queen and handmaid of the King". On the right side it's not specified who is the Queen and who is the King, it's on the left side that it's said that Tey was nurse of Nefertiti.
Could this be a pointer to Akhenaten being an adult already (24?) but Nefertiti still a young girl? Wet nursed when a baby and tutored as a juvenile queen? [Mutbenret and her dwarfs? Childhood entertainers?]
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,077
Bendigo
The relevant point is WHEN and WHERE that title had written and shown. Now, regarding this, I haven't got clears ideas. Thinking to Nefertiti, on the boundary stelae in the Earlier Declaration this title is present, but in many other occasions it's absent. This could mean that it was a title with a particular meaning to use only in particular occasions: we have seen that they tent to write all the titles, if it was possible. So if "Hereditary Princess" was rarely written there has to be a reason.
Perhaps in squeezing in titles, Great Royal Spouse just took precedence? Or her title as Hereditary Princess was so well known it was not always even thought to keep mentioning it - especially considering she was Great Royal Spouse, as I just mentioned?
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,077
Bendigo
This is a blast from the past, but.... who do we think was the ‘owner’ of the Carter Box? Who did it belong to, or, better still, who did we think it was it was originally made for? In whose room wasdid it originally store its contents? Yes, we know it was ‘found’ in KV62, but was it originally Tut’s Box?
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,354
Lago Maggiore, Italy
Perhaps in squeezing in titles, Great Royal Spouse just took precedence? Or her title as Hereditary Princess was so well known it was not always even thought to keep mentioning it - especially considering she was Great Royal Spouse, as I just mentioned?
Well, also that Tiye was the Royal Mother was known or that Meritaten was Royal Daughter ... anyway they always wrote those titles. So we are dealing with a category of titles which were in some way discretionary. But since in KmT about Royal figures nothing was discretionary, they weren't. There had to be a rule of some kind. We can say that the "rule" was not to write it, but in some circumstances that title became necessary. Like they wanted to show the complete figure and identity of the Royal person.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,354
Lago Maggiore, Italy
This is a blast from the past, but.... who do we think was the ‘owner’ of the Carter Box? Who did it belong to, or, better still, who did we think it was it was originally made for? In whose room wasdid it originally store its contents? Yes, we know it was ‘found’ in KV62, but was it originally Tut’s Box?
The knobs show the cartouches of Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten, so she was the primary owner. Actually the box had later given [as a gift, it seems] to a guy called Kedi and what was in it belonged to the "House-of-destroying-the-Bowmen" [Griffith Institute: Carter Archives - 001k-2]
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,077
Bendigo
Well, also that Tiye was the Royal Mother was known or that Meritaten was Royal Daughter ... anyway they always wrote those titles. So we are dealing with a category of titles which were in some way discretionary. But since in KmT about Royal figures nothing was discretionary, they weren't. There had to be a rule of some kind. We can say that the "rule" was not to write it, but in some circumstances that title became necessary. Like they wanted to show the complete figure and identity of the Royal person.
I can see your point. Was the Hereditary Princess always on public inscriptions?
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,077
Bendigo
The knobs show the cartouches of Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten, so she was the primary owner. Actually the box had later given [as a gift, it seems] to a guy called Kedi and what was in it belonged to the "House-of-destroying-the-Bowmen" [Griffith Institute: Carter Archives - 001k-2]
If given to Kedi, I wonder how it ended up in Tut’s tomb? Was Kedi a pet name for a Royal, I wonder?
 

Similar History Discussions