Akhenaten (Box, Carter Archive 001K)

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,083
Lago Maggiore, Italy
That Akhenaten begun to persecute and oppress the traditional cults, overall the one of Amen, after the death of the Father, is a good hypothesis in the context of the coregency between father and son. It doesn't seem that the deified Amenhotep was ready to renounce to Amen ... so the son had, in a certain measure, to tolerate [bear?] the presence of the cult of the traditional deity out of Akhetaten, even if he depotentiated its temples not taking part to rituals and liturgies.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,812
Bendigo
It's a possibility:

* Tiye, Royal Mother and Great Royal Wife, reaches the Royal Son, now Horo, at Akhetaten [carrying Beketaten with her, btw] and Amenhotep III, deified alive, needed an additional Great Royal Wife to substitute Tiye in the rituals ...
I can see Akhenaten with his ‘local’ god of Akhetaten. A good move to strengthen the power of the horo, while leaving the priesthoods of local gods of Thebes and Memphis etc. with their own cults. Amenophis III shoring up the administration for his dynasty, while still being able to support local gods at local cultic centres. But Akhenaten takes it too far. That’s where the real problem was. He made a new religion not just a new cult centre. And made an assault on other cults, which was far beyond the pale!

Sitamun looked after rituals while Amenophis III was still alive, as you say. Her period of service seems uncannily close in years to the first 12 years of Akhenaten’s reign (just maybe, if there was a Coregency).
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,812
Bendigo
That Akhenaten begun to persecute and oppress the traditional cults, overall the one of Amen, after the death of the Father, is a good hypothesis in the context of the coregency between father and son. It doesn't seem that the deified Amenhotep was ready to renounce to Amen ... so the son had, in a certain measure, to tolerate [bear?] the presence of the cult of the traditional deity out of Akhetaten, even if he depotentiated its temples not taking part to rituals and liturgies.
Indeed. As I mentioned in my previous post, Amenophis III showed affection for the Aten. It sometimes seems like it was the Thutmosside ‘cult’ of choice. Not a god as such, but still cultic, and god worship, I guess. Amenophis III was just more pragmatic about his religion, perhaps. He could let others to continue to worship in whatever fashion they wanted, and see the old gods respected in their cult centres. But Akhetaten was a city to worship the Aten in. Akhenaten, as I hypothesise, was visionary (or ‘nutter’) enough to turn it into the One religion. No wonder people hypothesise he was Moses.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,083
Lago Maggiore, Italy
I can see Akhenaten with his ‘local’ god of Akhetaten. A good move to strengthen the power of the horo, while leaving the priesthoods of local gods of Thebes and Memphis etc. with their own cults. Amenophis III shoring up the administration for his dynasty, while still being able to support local gods at local cultic centres. But Akhenaten takes it too far. That’s where the real problem was. He made a new religion not just a new cult centre. And made an assault on other cults, which was far beyond the pale!

Sitamun looked after rituals while Amenophis III was still alive, as you say. Her period of service seems uncannily close in years to the first 12 years of Akhenaten’s reign (just maybe, if there was a Coregency).
Thinking to temporal coincidences ... something important happened around Year 9, when the earlier form of the cartouches of the Aten got substituted with the later one: the one without figures reminding other deities. I would say that between Year 9 ["New Aten"] and Year 12 [Durbar] the context changed. Was Amenhotep III too busy with his deification to keep on controlling a bit what the son was doing? So that Akhenaten took that pivotal further step, changing the cartouches of the Aten? The impression is that the father isolated himself in Thebes, in the palace at Malkata, just as an unreachable living God ...
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,812
Bendigo
Thinking to temporal coincidences ... something important happened around Year 9, when the earlier form of the cartouches of the Aten got substituted with the later one: the one without figures reminding other deities. I would say that between Year 9 ["New Aten"] and Year 12 [Durbar] the context changed. Was Amenhotep III too busy with his deification to keep on controlling a bit what the son was doing? So that Akhenaten took that pivotal further step, changing the cartouches of the Aten? The impression is that the father isolated himself in Thebes, in the palace at Malkata, just as an unreachable living God ...
Sounds reasonable. But could I offer a more prosaic reason, still supporting your basic temporal thoughts? What if the last three years of Amenophis III were years of serious mental and physical deterioration. Perhaps he was pharaoh in name only? People get old. Perhaps he was no longer in any condition to govern his own bowell movements, let alone a kingdom? The junior Coregent took on more day to day decision making. Free of his father’s yoke, he let the rush of sheer political power and religious zealotry take over.

Edit: that lintel at the Amarna tombs showing both royal couples. Maybe Amenophis III was still alive, but only present on this earth in body, yet no longer well enough to run anything.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,083
Lago Maggiore, Italy
Sounds reasonable. But could I offer a more prosaic reason, still supporting your basic temporal thoughts? What if the last three years of Amenophis III were years of serious mental and physical deterioration. Perhaps he was pharaoh in name only? People get old. Perhaps he was no longer in any condition to govern his own bowell movements, let alone a kingdom? The junior Coregent took on more day to day decision making. Free of his father’s yoke, he let the rush of sheer political power and religious zealotry take over.

Edit: that lintel at the Amarna tombs showing both royal couples. Maybe Amenophis III was still alive, but only present on this earth in body, yet no longer well enough to run anything.
A Horo was a Horo [senior of junior it didn't matter]. If the followers of the traditional cults didn't find in Amenhotep III a "filter" to reduce the exuberance of the young Horo, it meant that or the old Horo was weak, in some way ill [may be insane] or that he was no more interested in the material world ... may be, once deified, he spent the time talking with the statues of the Gods in the palace at Malkata [ancient Egyptians talked for real with the statues ... it was even part of their rituals that priests read prayers and texts to the statues ...].
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,812
Bendigo
A Horo was a Horo [senior of junior it didn't matter]. If the followers of the traditional cults didn't find in Amenhotep III a "filter" to reduce the exuberance of the young Horo, it meant that or the old Horo was weak, in some way ill [may be insane] or that he was no more interested in the material world ... may be, once deified, he spent the time talking with the statues of the Gods in the palace at Malkata [ancient Egyptians talked for real with the statues ... it was even part of their rituals that priests read prayers and texts to the statues ...].
Plausible without doubt. We certainly have no trouble seeing that Amenophis III could very well have had a reduced, maybe totally non-existent, input into the running of the realm in his last few years. A horo might be a horo, but I can’t help seeing a junior horo as a ‘trainee’, and trainees have responsibilities, yet they are usually nowhere near as onerous or extensive as those of a more experienced leader. Though my analogy may not be very apt.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,083
Lago Maggiore, Italy
Plausible without doubt. We certainly have no trouble seeing that Amenophis III could very well have had a reduced, maybe totally non-existent, input into the running of the realm in his last few years. A horo might be a horo, but I can’t help seeing a junior horo as a ‘trainee’, and trainees have responsibilities, yet they are usually nowhere near as onerous or extensive as those of a more experienced leader. Though my analogy may not be very apt.
Well, Amenhotep IV aka Akhenaten was Horo with his all powers since the beginning: he decided [we can say without the obstruction of the father, but he decided] to create a new capital and to move there his Court and the administration of the country. Amenhotep III remained at Thebes, at Malkata to be more accurate, with his Court, but without the whole administration and without the commanders of the Army. The fortress at Tel El-Borg received supplies from Akhetaten [first sent by Akhenaten and then by Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten, as we have seen]. So it's clear that, even if a coregency was there, the "hard power" was substantially in the hands of the son.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,812
Bendigo
Well, Amenhotep IV aka Akhenaten was Horo with his all powers since the beginning: he decided [we can say without the obstruction of the father, but he decided] to create a new capital and to move there his Court and the administration of the country. Amenhotep III remained at Thebes, at Malkata to be more accurate, with his Court, but without the whole administration and without the commanders of the Army. The fortress at Tel El-Borg received supplies from Akhetaten [first sent by Akhenaten and then by Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten, as we have seen]. So it's clear that, even if a coregency was there, the "hard power" was substantially in the hands of the son.
Perhaps the father was in deep decline or deep withdrawal from the world for many years?

Btw I was unaware until now that Tel El-Borg received supplies from Akhenaten then Ankheperure Neferneferuaten.....
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,083
Lago Maggiore, Italy
Perhaps the father was in deep decline or deep withdrawal from the world for many years?

Btw I was unaware until now that Tel El-Borg received supplies from Akhenaten then Ankheperure Neferneferuaten.....
That's a recent discovery. There are the cartouches of Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten on seal impressions at Tell El-Borg [for accuracy I note, and I correct myself, that the right Arab word is "tell" not "tel"]. This means that those goods arrived there during the reign of that Monarch.

Now ... the seals show [as it's obvious] the Throne Name Ankhkheperure. How can we be sure it was Neferneferuaten? Because we've got a seal showing Ankhkheperure Mey Waenre ... and we do know who was that woman ... [object TBO II, 37]. But the "smoking gun" was a find showing Neferneferuaten Akhet en-yes [TBO 565].

Those supplies came from the headquarters of Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten. No doubt.
 

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