Akhenaten (Box, Carter Archive 001K)

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,012
Bendigo
I have taken the time to check a dictionary and the usage of the expression and actually that's not Shu, it's Truth or Justice [the usage of the owl doesn't change the matter, it's particular, but for Shu we should see a different bird]. So it's "living Truth" or "living Justice".

This for accuracy.
Fact checking confirms the original translation. It is good - even if ‘Shu’ would have been very, very interesting!!!
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,920
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Fact checking confirms the original translation. It is good - even if ‘Shu’ would have been very, very interesting!!!
Let's say that to reconsider the works of early researchers is wise. Anyway so far G & D have been reliable [even when they based their impressions on the drawings realized by Lepsius, they didn't get it wrong, the read what was there : "Saakare"]. I would say that they are a good source.

That "Shu" was actually too perfect. Usually what's too perfect needs an other check.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,012
Bendigo
Let's say that to reconsider the works of early researchers is wise. Anyway so far G & D have been reliable [even when they based their impressions on the drawings realized by Lepsius, they didn't get it wrong, the read what was there : "Saakare"]. I would say that they are a good source.

That "Shu" was actually too perfect. Usually what's too perfect needs an other check.
Yes, that seems a good rule of thumb. Indeed, double fact-checking of all things in an investigation would seem wise when it comes to deciding what is and what isn’t (in genuine reality) fact.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,920
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Yes, that seems a good rule of thumb. Indeed, double fact-checking of all things in an investigation would seem wise when it comes to deciding what is and what isn’t (in genuine reality) fact.
On the other hand ... I tend to think more and more that Egyptologists are underestimating a clue.

The usage of the same Throne Name by a successor [so a successor used the Throne Name of a predecessor] were really rare. Furthermore we've got two documented cases when this actually was simply a change of the Son of Ra [or "Sa Ra"] name by the same Monarch: Akhenaten [previously Amenhotep] and Tutankhaten [previously Tutankhamen].

In the same dynasty and in the same historical context we can note a successor [Smenkhkare] using the Throne Name of the predecessor [Neferneferuaten]. This is not a definitive evidence, but it's a good clue.

But now, I would add a consideration about Meritaten as Great Royal Wife. We have seen that on the box she was already GRW. She didn't change her status when Smenkhkare got the Throne.

I begin to see a way to delimit the matter of the continuity.

Further point: why should a Monarch connected with Ra keep the Throne Name of an Atenist Monarch? And Meryra II didn't mind about differentiate ...

Probably I've built in my mind a quite clear reconstruction of that context.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,920
Italy, Lago Maggiore
In good substance we've got a couple of Monarchs who are "variable ghosts".

Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten is really rare at Akhetaten [substantially absent], while she is present in the military system of the border [see Tel El Borg fortress].

Smenkhkare is in some way present at Akhetaten, but "he" is totally absent elsewhere.

In the Latter Proclamation, Year 6, Akhenaten said that he wasn't going to live the area delimited by the stelae ... and beyond those pieces of stone? Who was going to be the Horo? Neferneferuaten ... who else?

I'm still elaborating this, but I begin to think that it's the right path.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,012
Bendigo
On the other hand ... I tend to think more and more that Egyptologists are underestimating a clue.

The usage of the same Throne Name by a successor [so a successor used the Throne Name of a predecessor] were really rare. Furthermore we've got two documented cases when this actually was simply a change of the Son of Ra [or "Sa Ra"] name by the same Monarch: Akhenaten [previously Amenhotep] and Tutankhaten [previously Tutankhamen].

In the same dynasty and in the same historical context we can note a successor [Smenkhkare] using the Throne Name of the predecessor [Neferneferuaten]. This is not a definitive evidence, but it's a good clue.

But now, I would add a consideration about Meritaten as Great Royal Wife. We have seen that on the box she was already GRW. She didn't change her status when Smenkhkare got the Throne.

I begin to see a way to delimit the matter of the continuity.

Further point: why should a Monarch connected with Ra keep the Throne Name of an Atenist Monarch? And Meryra II didn't mind about differentiate ...

Probably I've built in my mind a quite clear reconstruction of that context.
Yes. The reuse of the Throne Name seems unlikely. We have thought so for a long time. I am happy to go with the more likely scenario, Neferneferuaten and Smenkhkare are (likely) one person. Nefertiti and Nefertiti Neferneferuaten (Neferneferuaten Nefertiti) are also (likely) one person. The facts as known would appear to support this. For me, it takes special pleading to suggest that a Throne Name was reused in such proximity of time and that Nefertiti Neferneferuaten and Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten are separate people. We don’t know, but it seems rational, according to what is known, to suggest they are the one person.

On the name Smenkhkare. Really, I had not thought about it until now, but that name is quite novel as well. Perhaps the ‘Re’ element is sign of rapprochement with tradition, an idea we have discussed several times, though, as Corvidius has suggested (if I remember and understand properly) that the ‘Re’ could easily be consonant with Atenism and not necessarily a departure from the Atenist cult. Even so, a choice of a ‘new’ Son of Re name by Nefertiti (?) could signal her sole reign as independent monarch (on the death of Akhenaten) and yet still be a nod toward tradition anyway.

As to Meritaten’s status on the Box. Perhaps a more prosaic understanding is that Meritaten became Great Royal Spouse to the senior horo, Akhenaten, when Nefertiti became Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten (junior horo/Coregent)? So when the Box was made this was naturally what was inscribed on it. I wonder now as well: was Neferneferuaten actually ruler ‘in practice’ already? Was Akhenaten in some kind of religious retirement, house arrest, mental and/or physical disablement? Still horo, but substantially out of the picture?
 
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AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,920
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Yes. The reuse of the Throne Name seems unlikely. We have thought so for a long time. I am happy to go with the more likely scenario, Neferneferuaten and Smenkhkare are (likely) one person. Nefertiti and Nefertiti Neferneferuaten (Neferneferuaten Nefertiti) are also (likely) one person. The facts as known would appear to support this. For me, it takes special pleading to suggest that a Throne Name was reused in such proximity of time and that Nefertiti Neferneferuaten and Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten are separate people. We don’t know, but it seems rational, according to what is known, to suggest they are the one person.

On the name Smenkhkare. Really, I had not thought about it until now, but that name is quite novel as well. Perhaps the ‘Re’ element is sign of rapprochement with tradition, an idea we have discussed several times, though, as Corvidius has suggested (if I remember and understand properly) that the ‘Re’ could easily be consonant with Atenism and not necessarily a departure from the Atenist cult. Even so, a choice of a ‘new’ Son of Re name by Nefertiti (?) could signal her sole reign as independent monarch (on the death of Akhenaten) and yet still be a nod toward tradition anyway.

As to Meritaten’s status on the Box. Perhaps a more prosaic understanding is that Meritaten became Great Royal Spouse to the senior horo, Akhenaten, when Nefertiti became Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten (junior horo/Coregent)? So when the Box was made this was naturally what was inscribed on it. I wonder now as well: was Neferneferuaten actually ruler ‘in practice’ already? Was Akhenaten in some kind of religious retirement, house arrest, mental and/or physical disablement? Still horo, but substantially out of the picture?
Akhenaten [according to what he said in the Latte Proclamation] was going to confine himself in Akhetaten, in the land delimited by the boundary stelae ... and beyond those pieces of stone?

Nefertiti acted. Understanding that her husband was going to live at Akhetaten like Amenhotep [III] at Malkata she had to play the role of Tiye ... but ... was there an active Horo? No there wasn't. So she decided to make a further step [with reference to Tiye] ... to become Horo herself.

The absence of evidences of Akhenaten's activity out of Akhetaten pose a problem to Egyptologists: who managed the country? Who brought the presence of the Horo out of Akhetaten?
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,012
Bendigo
Akhenaten [according to what he said in the Latte Proclamation] was going to confine himself in Akhetaten, in the land delimited by the boundary stelae ... and beyond those pieces of stone?

Nefertiti acted. Understanding that her husband was going to live at Akhetaten like Amenhotep [III] at Malkata she had to play the role of Tiye ... but ... was there an active Horo? No there wasn't. So she decided to make a further step [with reference to Tiye] ... to become Horo herself.

The absence of evidences of Akhenaten's activity out of Akhetaten pose a problem to Egyptologists: who managed the country? Who brought the presence of the Horo out of Akhetaten?
I thought the boundary steles marked the precinct of Akhetaten, but that there was no suggestion that Akhenaten would not ever go outside his Holy City???
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,920
Italy, Lago Maggiore
I thought the boundary steles marked the precinct of Akhetaten, but that there was no suggestion that Akhenaten would not ever go outside his Holy City???
The translation of G & D is good enough to give the idea of the scenario in Akhenaten's mind. Page 33 [on the left]. The rock tombs of El Amarna .. : Davies, Norman de Garis, 1865-1941 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Substantially he said that we was not going to pass beyond the 3 stelae [the forth border was the River Nile, obviously].

This means that he had only a potential direction: towards the Nile ... towards the divine.
 
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