Akhenaten (Box, Carter Archive 001K)

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,012
Bendigo
I am now remembering a scene at the Gempaaten (Thebes?) where Nefertiti and Meritaten are depicted. Do I remember correctly? If so, what role does Nefertiti perform and under what name? We, of course, remember her in the graffito in Pairi’s tomb, identified as Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten....
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,012
Bendigo
In good substance we've got a couple of Monarchs who are "variable ghosts".

Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten is really rare at Akhetaten [substantially absent], while she is present in the military system of the border [see Tel El Borg fortress].

Smenkhkare is in some way present at Akhetaten, but "he" is totally absent elsewhere.

In the Latter Proclamation, Year 6, Akhenaten said that he wasn't going to live the area delimited by the stelae ... and beyond those pieces of stone? Who was going to be the Horo? Neferneferuaten ... who else?

I'm still elaborating this, but I begin to think that it's the right path.
This abscence of Nefereneferuaten and Smenkhkare, the former at Akhetaten, and the latter, elsewhere, makes me wonder if the names overlapped in time but not in location where it was used?
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,920
Italy, Lago Maggiore
This abscence of Nefereneferuaten and Smenkhkare, the former at Akhetaten, and the latter, elsewhere, makes me wonder if the names overlapped in time but not in location where it was used?
I haven't been inactive in these days about this research ...

I'm following a line of inquiry which will require me to travel again. The British Museum has offered me something valuable. But regarding the XVIII dynasty I need to visit two other sites: Turin [easy!] and ... El Cairo, Egypt.

Anyway ...

Starting from the Latter Proclamation and the statement by Akhenaten that he was not going to leave Akhetaten I have checked something: there are no evidences that the Monarch was present out of Akhenaten after his Year 6.

This is pivotal: he was the Horo at [and in] Akhetaten. Out of the sacred city there was an other Horo. In the first 9 years that Horo for the rest of the country was his father, even if deified [so at the end it was Tiye to run the stat affairs, exactly like the letters of the Hittite King Tushratta demonstrate] ... then ... Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten was the Horo for KmT out of Akhetaten.

We have to be accurate about this: it was the Horo to sign the military supplies for an important border fortress like Tell El-Borg. Those supplies had signed by Ankhkheperure, not by Akhenaten, even if Akhenaten was still alive for sure.

Nefertiti "controlled" the River Nile and she ensured the borders, not her defied husband confined in Akhetaten.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,920
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Husband, not father ... clearly.

The trace to follow is only one: Ankhkheperure. Without minding if Neferneferuaten or Smenkhkare ... let's look for Ankhkheperure.

In occasion of my last visit to the British Museum I observed with accuracy the statues of Sekhmet ordered by Amenhotep III [and usurped by a not irrelevant number of later Monarchs ...].

Sekhmet is a woman. The lioness is not that evident [it's recognizable, but not that out of context with reference to the body of a woman].

I can dare to suggest an interpretation: Amenhotep III wanted Sekhmet to come in the form of a woman.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,012
Bendigo
I haven't been inactive in these days about this research ...

I'm following a line of inquiry which will require me to travel again. The British Museum has offered me something valuable. But regarding the XVIII dynasty I need to visit two other sites: Turin [easy!] and ... El Cairo, Egypt.

Anyway ...

Starting from the Latter Proclamation and the statement by Akhenaten that he was not going to leave Akhetaten I have checked something: there are no evidences that the Monarch was present out of Akhenaten after his Year 6.

This is pivotal: he was the Horo at [and in] Akhetaten. Out of the sacred city there was an other Horo. In the first 9 years that Horo for the rest of the country was his father, even if deified [so at the end it was Tiye to run the stat affairs, exactly like the letters of the Hittite King Tushratta demonstrate] ... then ... Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten was the Horo for KmT out of Akhetaten.

We have to be accurate about this: it was the Horo to sign the military supplies for an important border fortress like Tell El-Borg. Those supplies had signed by Ankhkheperure, not by Akhenaten, even if Akhenaten was still alive for sure.

Nefertiti "controlled" the River Nile and she ensured the borders, not her defied husband confined in Akhetaten.
Wow!!!


Edit: if it is confirmed that’s there are no evidences of Akhenaten outside Akhetaten after Year 6, I wonder what this suggests about the state of play?

With Coregency: Amenophis III (and Tiye?) are running things outside Akhetaten? Nefertiti not yet Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten until circa Year 12(?). I wonder again about that mention of Nefertiti and Meritaten in the pillar at the Gempaaten. I keep thinking of the Horo-Great Royal Spouse thing. But if so, Nefertiti would be ‘Ankhkheperure’ or, maybe even, ‘Neferneferuaten Nefertiti’, and not just ‘Nefertiti’; and not appearing as Great Royal Spouse herself (ritually speaking) in that depiction???
 
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Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,012
Bendigo
Husband, not father ... clearly.

The trace to follow is only one: Ankhkheperure. Without minding if Neferneferuaten or Smenkhkare ... let's look for Ankhkheperure.

In occasion of my last visit to the British Museum I observed with accuracy the statues of Sekhmet ordered by Amenhotep III [and usurped by a not irrelevant number of later Monarchs ...].

Sekhmet is a woman. The lioness is not that evident [it's recognizable, but not that out of context with reference to the body of a woman].

I can dare to suggest an interpretation: Amenhotep III wanted Sekhmet to come in the form of a woman.
Everywhere we look we seem to find the ‘feminine’ to the fore in one way or another...
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,012
Bendigo
Post 4212...


I'm just drawing attention to the fact that while we do not know the involvement or movements of Tiye, except that she did eventually end up in Akhetaten and was buried there, for a short time at least, we know far more about Nefertiti. So with what evidence we have so far from Thebes, Nefertiti is more prominent, and by that I mean that she looks to have more power at Thebes that later at Akhetaten, at least before becoming Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten. However, this may be because at Thebes she looks far more a part of a trinity than at Akhetaten, where she may have been subsumed into a more singular looking trinity, ie it is still a trinity, but is depicted more as a cohesive unit than three separate elements as it seems at Thebes. So what looks like a loss of power is more in our viewing the iconography at Thebes as depicting an essentially more autonomous individual than it does at Akhetaten where Nefertiti is joined at the hip to Akhenaten.

This is what I'm on about with Meritaten where we see her with Nefertiti on the so called Nefertiti pillars of the Hwt-bnbn. And here is a good example of the absence of Akhenaten, something that does not happen after the move to Akhetaten.


The above post of Corvidius came to mind again while addressing your most recent posts, AlpinLuke.

The depiction of Nefertiti and Meritaten at the Gempaaten as noted: what are the ‘precise’ names used? The whole inscription/s?
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,920
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Wow!!!


Edit: if it is confirmed that’s there are no evidences of Akhenaten outside Akhetaten after Year 6, I wonder what this suggests about the state of play?

With Coregency: Amenophis III (and Tiye?) are running things outside Akhetaten? Nefertiti not yet Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten until circa Year 12(?). I wonder again about that mention of Nefertiti and Meritaten in the pillar at the Gempaaten. I keep thinking of the Horo-Great Royal Spouse thing. But if so, Nefertiti would be ‘Ankhkheperure’ or, maybe even, ‘Neferneferuaten Nefertiti’, and not just ‘Nefertiti’; and not appearing as Great Royal Spouse herself (ritually speaking) in that depiction???
I could think to a couple of explanations about the possible particular condition of Neferneferuaten Nefertiti as still Great Royal Wife.

1. She was Mistress of the Sedge and the Papyrus [of the Two Lands] and Hereditary Princess [as we read in the inscriptions on the walls of the tombs at Akhetaten]. Those titles were compatible with a role of representation of the Monarch around the country. So, not Horo yet, but a representative of the Horo.

2. At Akhetaten, with the husband, in official occasions, she kept her role of Great Royal Wife, even if we have noted that some aspects of her "job" put her on a level almost equal to the one of Akhenaten.

As Hereditary Princess she was in the condition to exercise power on behalf of the Horo at local level for particular tasks [Prince Thutmose did the same at Memphis, just to mention an example] and as Mistress of the Two Lands she was entitled to do this all around Kemet.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,920
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Post 4212...





The above post of Corvidius came to mind again while addressing your most recent posts, AlpinLuke.

The depiction of Nefertiti and Meritaten at the Gempaaten as noted: what are the ‘precise’ names used? The whole inscription/s?
I should find again that depiction, unfortunately I didn't copy it. May be Corvidius remembers where it was.
 

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