Akhenaten (Box, Carter Archive 001K)

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,216
Lago Maggiore, Italy
An alliance between Ay and Horemheb seems par for the course, the politician and his military heavy. Was Ay (maybe Thuya) the patron of Horemheb early in the younger man’s career? Though Ay I could well see as head of army close to the Pharaoh with Horemheb later coming to have authority over the army generally. The connection between being in charge of ‘works’ and of the ‘army’ seems close. Both require the disciplined surpervision of large groups of men set to specific purpose. I could see army officers and permanent troops surpervising workers building infrastructure projects. Which makes me wonder if Ay’s household troops/charioteers were permanents, while only Horemheb’s officers were permanents.

NB I am reminded that I read the other day that the god Min was closely akin to Horus. Interesting to see two men by name Minemheb and a Horemheb, one seemingly pre-Akhetaten and one post-Akhetaten (or, at the least, post Akhenaten). And, in between, a Paatenemheb, who bears the name of the cult at Akhetaten and seemingly only appearing during that period when Akhetaten was capital.... yes, I do tend to beat dead horses....
Ay was near to the Pharaoh when he was an officer of his Royal Guard. We need to keep in mind that he commanded the elite rank of charioteers of the Monarch. Clearly such a position allowed him to deal with the high officers of the Army [Paatenemheb included] and since he was the "companion" of the Sovereign, he could have even helped Paatenemheb in his career.

At high level, the administration and the Army were connected [let's remind that particular title ... "Army Scribe" which indicated a military-administrative office], so it wasn't odd for them to see a general dealing with public works.

About Min, yes, he was a God who knew several fusions, one with Amun [MinAmun] and one just with Horus [MinHorus], already in the Middle Kingdom.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,663
Bendigo
Ay was near to the Pharaoh when he was an officer of his Royal Guard. We need to keep in mind that he commanded the elite rank of charioteers of the Monarch. Clearly such a position allowed him to deal with the high officers of the Army [Paatenemheb included] and since he was the "companion" of the Sovereign, he could have even helped Paatenemheb in his career.

At high level, the administration and the Army were connected [let's remind that particular title ... "Army Scribe" which indicated a military-administrative office], so it wasn't odd for them to see a general dealing with public works.

About Min, yes, he was a God who knew several fusions, one with Amun [MinAmun] and one just with Horus [MinHorus], already in the Middle Kingdom.
I see no reason why Minemheb, Paatenemheb and Horemheb can’t be the same individual. We look at figures of the times and some had changed names or gained names to suit the new cult, Akhenaten and Neferneferutenare clear examples. Beketaten and Meritaten and Meketaten and Ankhsenpaaten must surely be candidates. Paatenemheb must surely have had an earlier name. Nakhtaten another one. Some kept their old names: Meryre II, Ay, Tiye etc. It would be interesting to calculate the main figures in their before Akhenaten and after Akhenaten identities. Because every ‘Aten’ appearing in names at Akhetaten must have known a previous identity ‘before’ the Akhetaten move. Minemheb/Paatenemheb/Horemheb, if the one person, must show something of his character by the name changing: that is, he was keen to ‘fit in’ wherever he was at any given time, or in with whoever’s company he was mingling. An upwardly mobile Horemheb who finally reached the absolute pinnacle, one he would surely not have dared contemplate until very late, yet he also climbed his whole life. His is truly a success story. Aim upwards, who knows how high you might get!
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,216
Lago Maggiore, Italy
I see no reason why Minemheb, Paatenemheb and Horemheb can’t be the same individual. We look at figures of the times and some had changed names or gained names to suit the new cult, Akhenaten and Neferneferutenare clear examples. Beketaten and Meritaten and Meketaten and Ankhsenpaaten must surely be candidates. Paatenemheb must surely have had an earlier name. Nakhtaten another one. Some kept their old names: Meryre II, Ay, Tiye etc. It would be interesting to calculate the main figures in their before Akhenaten and after Akhenaten identities. Because every ‘Aten’ appearing in names at Akhetaten must have known a previous identity ‘before’ the Akhetaten move. Minemheb/Paatenemheb/Horemheb, if the one person, must show something of his character by the name changing: that is, he was keen to ‘fit in’ wherever he was at any given time, or in with whoever’s company he was mingling. An upwardly mobile Horemheb who finally reached the absolute pinnacle, one he would surely not have dared contemplate until very late, yet he also climbed his whole life. His is truly a success story. Aim upwards, who knows how high you might get!
Since the Aten was a minor almost irrelevant deity it's improbable that before of the reform in Amenhotep's family someone gave an Atenist name to a child. There is the possibility that the first one was just Beketaten [as child to receive an Atenist name]. An idea about what happened could be that who changed name was the one who carried a name with a direct reference to a deity who wasn't welcomed for Akhenaten, overall among his officers. Ay, with his brief and neutral name, had no concernes regarding this.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,663
Bendigo
Since the Aten was a minor almost irrelevant deity it's improbable that before of the reform in Amenhotep's family someone gave an Atenist name to a child. There is the possibility that the first one was just Beketaten [as child to receive an Atenist name]. An idea about what happened could be that who changed name was the one who carried a name with a direct reference to a deity who wasn't welcomed for Akhenaten, overall among his officers. Ay, with his brief and neutral name, had no concernes regarding this.
The re in Meryre May not have offended either. Nakhtmin to Nakhtaten (and back again?) and Minemheb to Paatenemheb. Mmm... Must check that Nakhtmin... if correct, not only is it a change to Aten, by a change from Min. Min again!
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,216
Lago Maggiore, Italy
The re in Meryre May not have offended either. Nakhtmin to Nakhtaten (and back again?) and Minemheb to Paatenemheb. Mmm... Must check that Nakhtmin... if correct, not only is it a change to Aten, by a change from Min. Min again!
Paying attention to the persons who surrounded the Court in the Palace, or in the nearby, I would say that at least an other deity, with Ra [Re, obviously welcomed, since it was the Aten, at the end, and it was well present in Throne Names, like Akhenaten's one ... Neferkheperure], was accepted [or not disturbing]: Thot. Thutmose was also a common name, not only a Royal one [Nefertiti's sculptor was a Thutmose].
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,663
Bendigo
Paying attention to the persons who surrounded the Court in the Palace, or in the nearby, I would say that at least an other deity, with Ra [Re, obviously welcomed, since it was the Aten, at the end, and it was well present in Throne Names, like Akhenaten's one ... Neferkheperure], was accepted [or not disturbing]: Thot. Thutmose was also a common name, not only a Royal one [Nefertiti's sculptor was a Thutmose].
I guess we may also consider that as Akhenaten appears to have become more fervent more god names may have disappeared. Akhenaten just may not have lived long enough, or remained mentally competent long enough, to eradicate all references to other gods. I guess if we look to Old Testament, references to El and Yawah remained in names, but the names of any other (false) gods substantially disappeared in names during the First Temple period.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,216
Lago Maggiore, Italy
I guess we may also consider that as Akhenaten appears to have become more fervent more god names may have disappeared. Akhenaten just may not have lived long enough, or remained mentally competent long enough, to eradicate all references to other gods. I guess if we look to Old Testament, references to El and Yawah remained in names, but the names of any other (false) gods substantially disappeared in names during the First Temple period.
A part that Christian Catholic still say "Amen" ...

I have had occasion to read about how deities "survived" in myths and legends, even after the affirmation of a new religion. Probably the Devil is the most evident present example of this. The Christian Devil today is the Pagan God Pan. Who else? Should we add something about Virgin Mary?

Anyway Thot would have survived to Akhenaten's insanity: his wife's sculptor was a Thutmose and even Akhenaten would have had some troubles to contradict his wife.

Let's go back to Akhetaten's theater ...

Akhenaten: "Nefertiti! How can your sculptor dare to challenge the divinity of the Aten carrying a name recalling Thot????"

Nefertiti: "Darling ... do you want to enjoy the nights with me or with a common mundane woman from the Harim?"

Akhenaten: "Are you going to defend your Thutmose? He's offending me!!!!"

Nefertiti: "Akh ... call the overseer of your Harim to find you a woman for tonight ... I go back to my palace, good night. It's a pity, you know, I was going to do something particular ..."

Akhenaten: "Wait! I do think your sculptor is so great to deserve to keep his name!"
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,663
Bendigo
A part that Christian Catholic still say "Amen" ...

I have had occasion to read about how deities "survived" in myths and legends, even after the affirmation of a new religion. Probably the Devil is the most evident present example of this. The Christian Devil today is the Pagan God Pan. Who else? Should we add something about Virgin Mary?

Anyway Thot would have survived to Akhenaten's insanity: his wife's sculptor was a Thutmose and even Akhenaten would have had some troubles to contradict his wife.

Let's go back to Akhetaten's theater ...

Akhenaten: "Nefertiti! How can your sculptor dare to challenge the divinity of the Aten carrying a name recalling Thot????"

Nefertiti: "Darling ... do you want to enjoy the nights with me or with a common mundane woman from the Harim?"

Akhenaten: "Are you going to defend your Thutmose? He's offending me!!!!"

Nefertiti: "Akh ... call the overseer of your Harim to find you a woman for tonight ... I go back to my palace, good night. It's a pity, you know, I was going to do something particular ..."

Akhenaten: "Wait! I do think your sculptor is so great to deserve to keep his name!"
Ha! And that is how an Italian reconstructs the past! I should have predicted it, lol...

But wait!

Akhenaten: I shall have him killed!

Nefertiti: Yes, of course, but not until he has finished my bust.

Akhenaten: Ahh well... that’s amore...
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,216
Lago Maggiore, Italy
Back to the topic [waiting to discover the destiny of Thutmose the sculptor ... ].

Now I'm working on a different possibility.

If Nefertiti became coregent of Akhenaten and then sole Monarch at Akhetaten ... which reason would have persuaded her to move the Court and the Administration back to Thebes? Let's ponder this: Akhetaten was in a strategical position and when Nefertiti [if Smenkhkare] became sole Monarch the city was an alive, rich and powerful capital. Easy to defend and in a fantastic position to intervene in the North and in the South as well.

Why to leave it?

Furthermore, we have noted that the Egyptian inhabitants of Akhetaten supported Nefertiti Neferneferuaten well more than his husband. She was in her "den" in Akhetaten.

What if Nefertiti / Smenkhkare was planning to transform Akhetaten into "Akhetra"? [The Horizon of Ra]. Let's muse on this for a moment: that was a reason to kill the Horo. At Thebes, after the death of Akhenaten, they were just waiting for the return of the Court and the Administration [and of the new Horo, of course]. But no ... Smenkhkare was going to remain at Akhetaten. WHAT???

I can even think to the clergies in Thebes paying the mercenaries who served under Akhenaten to "solve the problem".
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,216
Lago Maggiore, Italy
But this requires to reason about who was defending "Smenkhkare". We know that the Guard of Neferneferuaten was composed by Egyptians. Weren't they able to keep her safe? Far from the mercenaries who served under the husband?

Probably ... So?

The most simple and historically simple explanation is ... a traitor [a payed traitor].
 

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