Akhenaten (Box, Carter Archive 001K)

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,220
Lago Maggiore, Italy
About Tutu, in the Amarna letters, we've got these mentions:

EA158
The Amarna Letters : William L. Moran : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
EA164
The Amarna Letters : William L. Moran : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
EA167
The Amarna Letters : William L. Moran : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
[where Tutu seems to be the recipient of the letter]
EA169
The Amarna Letters : William L. Moran : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Regarding this personage, I don't remember if we have said something, anyway we've got his tomb at Akhetaten and that tomb tells us that he was probably the higher officer in Akhenaten's court. What we know is that an inscription indicates him as chief of the foreign lands. Really similar to a Vizier.

Anyway if we look at the inscription "Vizier" is not present. Davis suggests "Chamberlain", even if, as for I can infer from the dictionaries I consult, they wrote that word in a different way. But the most interesting title was something like "chief mouthpiece of the entire land" [according to Davis].
The rock tombs of El Amarna : Davies, Norman de Garis, 1865-1941 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
tutu.JPG

Sure he was really powerful.
 
Oct 2011
25,220
Lago Maggiore, Italy
And in the row to the right of "mouthpiece" is "emissary to all foreign lands".
Back after a while ... yes, and I think more to a kind of Foreign Minister ante-litteream then a proper Vizier, even if, putting together all the titles, the difference is tiny.

Anyway, for the record, going back to Tutu's tomb and observing well, I've found Tutu the Chamberlain.

Entrance, ceiling inscriptions [The rock tombs of El Amarna : Davies, Norman de Garis, 1865-1941 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive]
tutu2.JPG
So, he was also the Chamberlain of Akhenaten.

Such an important personage, in that position, could have noted something about Nefertiti Neferneferuaten, the Great Royal Wife. And curiously he [at least probably he followed the works of preparation of his own tomb] exaggerated a bit presenting her.

North Thickness.
The rock tombs of El Amarna : Davies, Norman de Garis, 1865-1941 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

tutu-nfe.JPG

My memory tells me that Nefertiti wasn't the only GRF carrying also this title [I have to check this], in any case it's interesting that the Chamberlain of Akhenaten minds to specify also this title of his august wife.

An other interesting detail is that the cartouches of the Aten are still in the early version. To say all, if I'm not blind, the latest version of the Aten in Tutu's tomb is not visible. This can be a way to understand when Tutu served. Probably in the first 8-9 years of Akhenaten's reign.
 
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Likes: Ayrton
Oct 2011
25,220
Lago Maggiore, Italy
Among other things, I am pondering a detail: that title of "Mistress of the lands of the Sedge and the Papyrus" ["lands" in the sense of geographic areas], that is to say of Upper and Lower KmT [South and North Egypt], put Nefertiti in the condition of being a kind of living symbol of Nekhbet and Wadjet [the Goddesses of the Two Lands]. A quite remarkable identification.

Thinking well, this was more natural in the perspective of the evolving Atenism: the Great Royal Wife acquired also those traditional roles [who else?], since the Goddesses were going to be forgotten.
 
Likes: Ayrton
Jan 2017
3,663
Bendigo
Among other things, I am pondering a detail: that title of "Mistress of the lands of the Sedge and the Papyrus" ["lands" in the sense of geographic areas], that is to say of Upper and Lower KmT [South and North Egypt], put Nefertiti in the condition of being a kind of living symbol of Nekhbet and Wadjet [the Goddesses of the Two Lands]. A quite remarkable identification.

Thinking well, this was more natural in the perspective of the evolving Atenism: the Great Royal Wife acquired also those traditional roles [who else?], since the Goddesses were going to be forgotten.
Interesting point. A back handed way of maintaining things as they were even though, on the surface, things were changed. I am still thinking of Nefertiti and that possible ‘Tiyi’ shortening. I also see Tiye having been translaiterated as ‘Tiyi’ as well. I know you are not so convinced of these overlaps, but when we ponder where ‘Nefertiti’ as a name came from, to do a form similar to Nefertari, but with nod and wink to Tiye, then why not ‘beautiful Tiyi’ or something like that? If KV55 is Akhenaten (and, of course,, I think he almost certainly is) and Nefertiti or Meritaten is KV35YL (and I think it as a good theory as any - with Nefertiti as full sister of Akhenaten shown in the DNA, whether KV35YL or not), then honouring mother (Tiye) in the name of daughter (Nefertiti) seems plausible enough to me. Indeed, it seems a kind of natural fit IMO.
 
Oct 2011
25,220
Lago Maggiore, Italy
Interesting point. A back handed way of maintaining things as they were even though, on the surface, things were changed. I am still thinking of Nefertiti and that possible ‘Tiyi’ shortening. I also see Tiye having been translaiterated as ‘Tiyi’ as well. I know you are not so convinced of these overlaps, but when we ponder where ‘Nefertiti’ as a name came from, to do a form similar to Nefertari, but with nod and wink to Tiye, then why not ‘beautiful Tiyi’ or something like that? If KV55 is Akhenaten (and, of course,, I think he almost certainly is) and Nefertiti or Meritaten is KV35YL (and I think it as a good theory as any - with Nefertiti as full sister of Akhenaten shown in the DNA, whether KV35YL or not), then honouring mother (Tiye) in the name of daughter (Nefertiti) seems plausible enough to me. Indeed, it seems a kind of natural fit IMO.
Beautiful instead of junior? So that instead of Tasherit they preferred Nefer ... as usual regarding the Amarna period we can only add a hypothesis to the scenario to see if it can stand. It happened they changed a bit the name of the mother without adding that Tasherit. How could we check this?

In the meanwhile I've checked what my memory suggested to me: hatshepsut and her daughter Neferure carried the title of Mistress of the lands of the Sedge and the Papyrus [Upper and Lower Egypt]. I have to find the inscriptions to make a comparison of the spelling to find out if it's exactly the same title. And Hatshepsut was still GRF when that title appeared. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/547628
 
Mar 2019
59
Ogden, Utah
As you can see, the "place" determinatives make this Upper and Lower Egypt, the south and the north symbolized by those plants. There is no such title as "mistress of the sedge and the papyrus" strictly speaking. And there really is no inference of Nefertiti " in the condition of being a kind of living symbol of Nekhbet and Wadjet [the Goddesses of the Two Lands". There was no official goddess at Akhetaten right from the beginning except Nefertiti as Tefnut--for reasons I have already given. I remember reading a paper many years ago now by Aidan Dodson claiming that Smenkhkare was a coregent with Akhenaten,--- despite his golden anthropoid canopic coffinettes showing the emblems of those goddesses on the foreheads [my observation]. I wrote after that that this was not likely during the actual reign of Akhenaten, so this successor must have outlived him and returned to orthodox ways. But it's all moot as these things proved to be made for Neferneferuaten "effective for her husband", who surely outlived Akhenaten..
 
Jan 2017
3,663
Bendigo
Beautiful instead of junior? So that instead of Tasherit they preferred Nefer ... as usual regarding the Amarna period we can only add a hypothesis to the scenario to see if it can stand. It happened they changed a bit the name of the mother without adding that Tasherit. How could we check this?

In the meanwhile I've checked what my memory suggested to me: hatshepsut and her daughter Neferure carried the title of Mistress of the lands of the Sedge and the Papyrus [Upper and Lower Egypt]. I have to find the inscriptions to make a comparison of the spelling to find out if it's exactly the same title. And Hatshepsut was still GRF when that title appeared. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/547628
I am reading Tyldesley’s book on Hatshepsut again at the moment. As Hatshetsup-Neferure might appear a kind of template for Nefertiti-Meritaten, it is a far more captivating read than last time I looked at it years ago.

Edit: Spent a few minutes looking up Wadjet and Nekhbet. I think your speculation that Nefertiti maybe replaced them, but not ‘explicitly’ nor ‘overtly’, has much to commend it from what I have read so far. (Trusting here that I understood the full thrust of your thoughts). Especially in that image of them being at each side of the sun disc in some of the iconography. They appear to some degree as a unit: like Akhenaten as sun disc (after a fashion) and Nefertiti as Wadjet-Nekhbet (after a fashion). Reminds me of the peculiar idea that Christianity is monotheistic when clearly there is much to commend it as every bit as polytheistic and pagan as the religions its adherents scorn. The polytheism, of course, is not ‘overt’ here either, but it’s clearly there to be seen if you have eyes to see, lol.
 
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Oct 2011
25,220
Lago Maggiore, Italy
As you can see, the "place" determinatives make this Upper and Lower Egypt, the south and the north symbolized by those plants. There is no such title as "mistress of the sedge and the papyrus" strictly speaking. And there really is no inference of Nefertiti " in the condition of being a kind of living symbol of Nekhbet and Wadjet [the Goddesses of the Two Lands". There was no official goddess at Akhetaten right from the beginning except Nefertiti as Tefnut--for reasons I have already given. I remember reading a paper many years ago now by Aidan Dodson claiming that Smenkhkare was a coregent with Akhenaten,--- despite his golden anthropoid canopic coffinettes showing the emblems of those goddesses on the foreheads [my observation]. I wrote after that that this was not likely during the actual reign of Akhenaten, so this successor must have outlived him and returned to orthodox ways. But it's all moot as these things proved to be made for Neferneferuaten "effective for her husband", who surely outlived Akhenaten..
I tend not to translate symbols with a clear meaning [like the sedge and the papyrus], probably it's because of my far past as a decadent poet.

Now, regarding the title, the fact that other Queens had defined in that way is a clue that it was a title [may be connected with the XVIII dynasty, I've got to make a well wider research about this].

But this is an opinion.

What's seems to be sure is that Ankhkheperure survived to the death of Akhenaten. Personally I tend to imagine that a "Smenkhkare" wasn't so suitable to be a coregent of Akhenaten. This is among the reasons why I put Neferneferuaten before of Smenkhkare. If Akhenaten accepted a Smenkhka-Re, which was the reason for a Neferneferu-Aten while Akhetaten was ... tottering.
 
Jan 2017
3,663
Bendigo
I tend not to translate symbols with a clear meaning [like the sedge and the papyrus], probably it's because of my far past as a decadent poet.

Now, regarding the title, the fact that other Queens had defined in that way is a clue that it was a title [may be connected with the XVIII dynasty, I've got to make a well wider research about this].

But this is an opinion.

What's seems to be sure is that Ankhkheperure survived to the death of Akhenaten. Personally I tend to imagine that a "Smenkhkare" wasn't so suitable to be a coregent of Akhenaten. This is among the reasons why I put Neferneferuaten before of Smenkhkare. If Akhenaten accepted a Smenkhka-Re, which was the reason for a Neferneferu-Aten while Akhetaten was ... tottering.
Paragraph 1: as an enjoyer and writer of poetry (and subtlety), I see no reason to think Egyptian religion need to be seen as all black and white, and probably was not seen by most Ancient Egyptians as black and white.

Paragraph 2: My quick look seems to support that. I guess we should not be surprised.

Regards your thoughts on Smenkhkare. You must know by now you will get no argument from me on what you say here. I have come to just think Smenkhkare is Nefertiti. Evidence may arise to make me stop thinking that, but until then, to me it remains almost certain.
 
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