Akhenaten (Box, Carter Archive 001K)

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AlpinLuke

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Oct 2011
27,228
Italy, Lago Maggiore
The correction above is important: actually, being Kiya still presented as "Wife" [only "Wife", not "Royal"] after Year 5 [or in late Year 5], it means that at Court there was only Nefertiti. But technically not in the Palace of Akhenaten ... we should remind that a common wife in Ancient Egypt was a woman who slept under the same roof with the husband, nothing else. Nefertiti had her own Palace in the Northern quarters ...

Anyway, there is the possibility that Kiya kept the past status of wife, without living physically with Akhenaten [at the end she became the wife of a Horo, not exactly something normal].
 
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Corvidius

Ad Honorem
Jul 2017
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Crows nest
Bradshaw's article is from 2016, the University of York forensic examination of the the Younger Lady took place in February 2003. So her comment that the damage to her face could just as well have been made my tomb robbers is not the result of her not being an Egyptologist, but of not carrying out proper research, research that anybody with an internet connection can do, and without a single qualification. The forensic report has been available online for years.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,228
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Bradshaw's article is from 2016, the University of York forensic examination of the the Younger Lady took place in February 2003. So her comment that the damage to her face could just as well have been made my tomb robbers is not the result of her not being an Egyptologist, but of not carrying out proper research, research that anybody with an internet connection can do, and without a single qualification. The forensic report has been available online for years.
True. And her supervisor didn't pay attention to this as well. Regarding the supervisor, Dr. Nifosi, may be it's a bit more relevant. From the site of Kent Uni I gets that she teaches "ancient history, Egyptology, archaeology, Ancient Greek and Latin".
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,268
Bendigo
I remeber that in KV55 they found a cosmetic vase carrying an inscription ...
View attachment 19370

The part on the left is "canonical": two cartouches of the Aten [early version] and the two cartouches of Akhenaten [already Akhenaten]. Putting together the two temporal references we are between late Year 5 and Year 9. This is quite interesting ... since Nefertiti was already Akhenaten's Great Royal Wife.

The right part [last three columns] presents us Kiya.

Starting from left and from the upper part of the column.

The Wife, greatly beloved of the Lord of the Sedge and the Bee, living in Maat,
Neferkheperure Waenre, the beautiful Son of the Aten,
Living who lives in the eternity, forever, Kiya
That is really, really interesting, as I was about to make a post before I read your post, and it may (or may not?) throw some light on what I was about to post.

Some questions:

Who entombed Akhetaten at Amarna?:
1. Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten?
2. Ankhkheperure Smenkhkare?
3. Someone acting on behalf of Tut:
a) Meritaten?
b) Ankhsenpaaten?
c) Ay, Paatenemheb*, Maya?
d) Someone else???

Akhenaten (KV55) was found in a coffin, but Tiye was removed from KV55, presumably in a coffin taken from within her shrine (which was left behind). Subsequently, her coffin disapeared but she remained, to end up naked and coffin-less in KV35. Her daughter (KV35YL) turned up naked and coffin-less with her. KV35boy - why not the same trajectory? So Tiye lost her coffin sometime AFTER she was removed from KV55. So whoever removed Tiye (and KV35YL and boy, yep!) from KV55, is unlikely to be the same agent/s who later were responsible for the disappearance of their coffins. I’m thinking tomb robbers sometime before ever the KV35 family-of-three were cached in KV35.

Who, AlpinLuke, , is referred to in your inscription? Kiya? .. some secondary wife who has absolutely no business in entombing Pharaohs (IMO) or lending her secondary-wife secondhand coffin! The idea stretches credibility too far for me. Surely, Nefertiti or Meritaten or Tuts agent/s would not have to resort to such a thing!

*Horemheb to those not in the know... ?

**Sudden thought: is Nebkhkherenre the son of Meritre(Meritaten) , also known as KV35boy? ? [Yes, I think I have tried that one before. ?]
 
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Corvidius

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Jul 2017
3,047
Crows nest
Past the edit cut off so a new post. I might expand the site and collect handy information in one place, along with opinion.
Akhetaten
 
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Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,268
Bendigo
I remeber that in KV55 they found a cosmetic vase carrying an inscription ...
View attachment 19370

The part on the left is "canonical": two cartouches of the Aten [early version] and the two cartouches of Akhenaten [already Akhenaten]. Putting together the two temporal references we are between late Year 5 and Year 9. This is quite interesting ... since Nefertiti was already Akhenaten's Great Royal Wife.

The right part [last three columns] presents us Kiya.

Starting from left and from the upper part of the column.

The Wife, greatly beloved of the Lord of the Sedge and the Bee, living in Maat,
Neferkheperure Waenre, the beautiful Son of the Aten,
Living who lives in the eternity, forever, Kiya
Kiya= Meritaten, then?

Edit: took a quick look at my copy of inscriptions etc. for Kiya. On the earliest inscriptions/depictions for Meritaten, is she named, or is her name just inferred? Might be a dumb question, but I need to ask, I think.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,268
Bendigo
Stela fragment from the Maru-Aten. (Source unidentified).

I. On the front of the stela;
The King offers a libation jar to the Aten, while a royal lady shakes a sistrum behind him.
Beside solar disk: (Heka-Aten)|, given life forever continually; great living Aten, lord of jubilees(s), lord of everything Aten encircles, lord of heaven, lord of earth in the sunshade of the wife and great beloved Kiya in the Maru of the Aten in Akhet-Aten.
By King: The Lord of the Two Lands (Neferkheperure - Waenre)|, given life, Lord of Crowns , (Akhenaten)| , great in his lifetime.
Above the lady: the wife and great beloved of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, who lives on Maat, Lord of the Two Lands, (Neferkheperure - Waenre)|, given life [...]
[the beautiful child] of the [living] Aten who lives continually forever, Kiya;
the King's bodily daughter, his beloved ..., born to the wife and great beloved of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, who lives on Maat, (Neferkheperure - Waenre)|, [the beautiful child of the living Aten who lives continually forever, Kiya];

<Usurped and re-inscribed for the King's Daughter Meretaten>
On the back of the stela:

II. The King elevates a censer to the disk.
<inscriptions are virtually identical to those on the front.>


I definitely need to be corrected if I am wrong, but in the above is Kiya referred to as ‘king’s bodily daughter’?

I just had the queerest thought of all - and Corvidius can vouch for me, i’ve Had some pretty queer thoughts - but: could be the original (or pet) names of BOTH Nefertiti and Kiya? A question, mind. Not a hypothesis.
 
Last edited:

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,228
Italy, Lago Maggiore
That is really, really interesting, as I was about to make a post before I read your post, and it may (or may not?) throw some light on what I was about to post.

Some questions:

Who entombed Akhetaten at Amarna?:
1. Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten?
2. Ankhkheperure Smenkhkare?
3. Someone acting on behalf of Tut:
a) Meritaten?
b) Ankhsenpaaten?
c) Ay, Paatenemheb*, Maya?
d) Someone else???

Akhenaten (KV55) was found in a coffin, but Tiye was removed from KV55, presumably in a coffin taken from within her shrine (which was left behind). Subsequently, her coffin disapeared but she remained, to end up naked and coffin-less in KV35. Her daughter (KV35YL) turned up naked and coffin-less with her. KV35boy - why not the same trajectory? So Tiye lost her coffin sometime AFTER she was removed from KV55. So whoever removed Tiye (and KV35YL and boy, yep!) from KV55, is unlikely to be the same agent/s who later were responsible for the disappearance of their coffins. I’m thinking tomb robbers sometime before ever the KV35 family-of-three were cached in KV35.

Who, AlpinLuke, , is referred to in your inscription? Kiya? .. some secondary wife who has absolutely no business in entombing Pharaohs (IMO) or lending her secondary-wife secondhand coffin! The idea stretches credibility too far for me. Surely, Nefertiti or Meritaten or Tuts agent/s would not have to resort to such a thing!

*Horemheb to those not in the know... ?

**Sudden thought: is Nebkhkherenre the son of Meritre(Meritaten) , also known as KV35boy? ? [Yes, I think I have tried that one before. ?]
KV55 was a kind of generic "container". Anyway it's a fact that an object which belonged to Kiya was there.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,228
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Kiya= Meritaten, then?

Edit: took a quick look at my copy of inscriptions etc. for Kiya. On the earliest inscriptions/depictions for Meritaten, is she named, or is her name just inferred? Might be a dumb question, but I need to ask, I think.
In the case I mention Kiya is named, clearly. And she's not Meritaten, this is sure.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,228
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Stela fragment from the Maru-Aten. (Source unidentified).

I. On the front of the stela;
The King offers a libation jar to the Aten, while a royal lady shakes a sistrum behind him.
Beside solar disk: (Heka-Aten)|, given life forever continually; great living Aten, lord of jubilees(s), lord of everything Aten encircles, lord of heaven, lord of earth in the sunshade of the wife and great beloved Kiya in the Maru of the Aten in Akhet-Aten.
By King: The Lord of the Two Lands (Neferkheperure - Waenre)|, given life, Lord of Crowns , (Akhenaten)| , great in his lifetime.
Above the lady: the wife and great beloved of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, who lives on Maat, Lord of the Two Lands, (Neferkheperure - Waenre)|, given life [...]
[the beautiful child] of the [living] Aten who lives continually forever, Kiya;
the King's bodily daughter, his beloved ..., born to the wife and great beloved of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, who lives on Maat, (Neferkheperure - Waenre)|, [the beautiful child of the living Aten who lives continually forever, Kiya];

<Usurped and re-inscribed for the King's Daughter Meretaten>
On the back of the stela:

II. The King elevates a censer to the disk.
<inscriptions are virtually identical to those on the front.>


I definitely need to be corrected if I am wrong, but in the above is Kiya referred to as ‘king’s bodily but daughter’?

I just had the queerest thought of all - and Corvidius can vouch for me, i’ve Had some pretty queer thoughts - but: could be the original (or pet) names of BOTH Nefertiti and Kiya? A question, mind. Not a hypothesis.
Ther problem here is that the visible inscription is referred to Meritaten, so that the expression "King's bodily daughter" [... born to the wife and great beloved of the King of Upper and Lower Egyp ... so daughter also of Nefertiti] is referred to Meritaten.
 
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