Akhenaten (Box, Carter Archive 001K)

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Mar 2019
261
Peterborough, Ontario Canada
Velikovsky? He reminds me alternative history ...
With as much ink that has been spilled on Amarna and just about as many theories, one could say that most of what is written is speculative, some of it even alternative. However, I’d rather take note of everything before disregarding it.
 

Corvidius

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Jul 2017
3,047
Crows nest
Recently, I came across a reference to a talk by Reeves concerning Tut’s golden throne and his theory that it first belonged to Akhenaten, then to Nefertiti as Pharaoh, and then to Tut. Yet I haven’t been able to track the original paper down. Has anyone come across that paper? I’m familiar with most of Reeves’ writings but not to one with the golden throne in the title.
I too cannot remember the exact reference, but do remember that he is questioning the alteration to Ankhhesenpaaten's wig, where it seems to have been re-cut at the neck. Huber also questions the origins of the throne and points to some lines inscribed in Tutankhaten's torso to represent rolls of fat. The style, he believes, is more fitting to late in the reign of Amunhotep III into that of Akhenaten. Except for the throne, Tutankhaten is otherwise not depicted with rolls of fat. In the earliest depictions of Akhenaten he is shown to be a bit podgy, while Tutankhaten is always shown as the conventional Egyptian "perfect being", except sitting down when others would stand, and what would Amunhotep II had thought of sitting on a chair to shoot arrows, not amused I think. But, I really don't know if either proposal is valid or not
 
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Ayrton

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Jan 2017
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Bendigo
In regard to those Magic Bricks. I am always intrigued by human beings and their rules and regulations, whether secular or religious. Things never run perfectly. Humans vary practices and rituals and rules and regulations are not always applied to aoeefecf standard, for whatever reason or motives.

So, to simplify, just as every tomb protection, practical and magical, that is placed in a tomb, is overlooked or manoeuvred around by tomb robbers; every funeral practice does not necessarily run to a perfect schedule and/or standard - which is only ‘speculated’ to be a perfect schedule and standard by us folk 3,000 years late and which is made evident to me by that article on Magic Bricks AlpinLuke posted - for me these Magic Bricks were seemingly put in reasonably ‘standard’ orientation, just like ones in Thutmosis III’s tomb. This means (for me) they were somewhat adhoc, but still meant to do the job. Humans, even religiously sound people, often have to make do with the cards delivered them, and perform the roles as best they can, sometimes with some cribbing at the edges.

Corvidius, there might have been perfect religious standards (various according to user%?), but I have no doubt there would have been plenty of times in temple and tomb where religious ‘pragmatism’ was employed. We are seeing Human beings getting by in the end, getting the job done ‘adequately’, not always providing heavenly perfection on earth.

In a nutshell, and to reiterate, if unknown folk had set the Magic Bricks roughly in place, they were likely meant to do the job Magic Bricks were intended for. Other explanations might be put in the ‘alternative theory’ category, not impossible, but ‘alternative’.
 

Corvidius

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Jul 2017
3,047
Crows nest
Immanuel Velikovsky!
That’s who the scholar was.
More on this discussed on this other thread:
Ancient Egyptian Forum • View topic - The Oedipus - Akhenaten theory
Yet another forum about Egypt that has been seriously attacked. The latest introduction post by "Manny" is worded just about the same as one that appeared on Dreams. Then "M" showed up, trolled, banned, massive spam attacks. It's the fringe, they are very hateful, and you don't see this on the GH or UM forums.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,267
Bendigo
With as much ink that has been spilled on Amarna and just about as many theories, one could say that most of what is written is speculative, some of it even alternative. However, I’d rather take note of everything before disregarding it.
Just came to this Kyla. You can see in my last post, that I do not tend to discard out of hand what I see as ‘very likely’ facts. IMO those Magic Bricks and their placement should be seen in its mist obvious and straight forward context: they were there to do the job Magic Bricks are intended to do. The work was rough but well intentioned. Other explanations might be feasible, might end up being true to what happened, but they need far more imagination to make them work and I can’t help seeing them as anything other than alternative theories (for me). My mind remains a wee bit open. I do not write of some Vellikovskis seemingly more imaginative ideas, while still thinking that not all of them are grounded in a fully critical analysis of actual fact. My mind remains a wee bit open, though, I have been wrong before.
 

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,267
Bendigo
Yet another forum about Egypt that has been seriously attacked. The latest introduction post by "Manny" is worded just about the same as one that appeared on Dreams. Then "M" showed up, trolled, banned, massive spam attacks. It's the fringe, they are very hateful, and you don't see this on the GH or UM forums.
I don’t write off Immanuel Vellikovski or David Rohl, as I don’t write off Kenneth Kitchen, Cyril Aldred, James Allen, or (to be topical) Ronald Ridley. You look at them, and analyse their every hypothesis and theory with as much objrctivity as you can muster. That’s if you believe in open minded inquiry. Believe in proper investigative method.
 
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Corvidius

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Jul 2017
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Corvidius, there might have been perfect religious standards (various according to user%?), but I have no doubt there would have been plenty of times in temple and tomb where religious ‘pragmatism’ was employed. We are seeing Human beings getting by in the end, getting the job done ‘adequately’, not always providing heavenly perfection on earth.

In a nutshell, and to reiterate, if unknown folk had set the Magic Bricks roughly in place, they were likely meant to do the job Magic Bricks were intended for. Other explanations might be put in the ‘alternative theory’ category, not impossible, but ‘alternative’.
The main issue is that at least half of the magic in the complete brick is missing, presumably deliberately. This means they have no function whatsoever, even if originally placed intact in the tomb by his family trying to do the right thing. But then, knowing him, presumably being his children, or even wife, though I doubt that, and being Atenists from birth, what are they doing introducing Osiris and the Duat into his burial.

If KV55 was exactly as it is, but in an alternate universe with no Atenism, we could just ignore these bricks as part of the desecration, and damaging them would in fact have had some meaning to the deceased, but in our universe with Akhenaten, the bricks, damaged or intact, have no meaning.
 

Corvidius

Ad Honorem
Jul 2017
3,047
Crows nest
I don’t write off Immanuel Vellikovski or David Rohl, as I don’t write off Kenneth Kitchen, Cyril Aldred, James Allen, or (to be topical) Ronald Ridley. You look at them, and analyse their every hypothesis and theory with as much objrctivity as you can muster. That’s if you believe in open minded inquiry. Believe in proper investigative method.
It's not the likes of Velikovsky, or de Lubicz for that matter, which are a problem, both being dead as well. It's the new ones, the real charlatans out to make a buck from the gullible. It's the "seed vaults", "cone heads", "power plants" and other nonsense, and some very poisonous and vindictive people supporting them.
 
Mar 2019
261
Peterborough, Ontario Canada
Just came to this Kyla. You can see in my last post, that I do not tend to discard out of hand what I see as ‘very likely’ facts. IMO those Magic Bricks and their placement should be seen in its mist obvious and straight forward context: they were there to do the job Magic Bricks are intended to do. The work was rough but well intentioned. Other explanations might be feasible, might end up being true to what happened, but they need far more imagination to make them work and I can’t help seeing them as anything other than alternative theories (for me). My mind remains a wee bit open. I do not write of some Vellikovskis seemingly more imaginative ideas, while still thinking that not all of them are grounded in a fully critical analysis of actual fact. My mind remains a wee bit open, though, I have been wrong before.

The events at Akhetaten and the personages involved, created such a stir that the reverberations are still being discussed today. Many myths begin as kernels of fact, which—through oral traditions and the balm of time—become woven into embellished stories.

We discussed something similar earlier in the thread in connection with the theories about Moses and whether the stories are based in actual events or woven together from varied threads of interpretation and embellished re-telling of events.

So, the alternative histories, the fringe and the wing nuts cannot be wholly ignored, in my opinion.

The pursuit of truth involves surveying all of the information as well as all of the interpretations.
 

Corvidius

Ad Honorem
Jul 2017
3,047
Crows nest
. IMO those Magic Bricks and their placement should be seen in its mist obvious and straight forward context: they were there to do the job Magic Bricks are intended to do.
As they are, it would be like saying "Expelliarmus" without a wand and expecting the spell to work. The bases, or bricks, only contain the spell and the name of the person to be protected, it's the object on top, usually a god, that wields the power, they are the equivalent of the wand. That they are important and have, for want of a better word right now, an "animus", is shown by them being wrapped. They are wrapped, even the djed pillar, it seems, because they contain the power to make the spell work, they are not quite as inanimate as, say, a wadjet eye, which is magic, but does not contain a manifestation of a god in the same way that the wrapped statues do.
 
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