Akhenaten (Box, Carter Archive 001K)

Status
Closed

Ayrton

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,250
Bendigo
I am tempted to start a thread on something I am particularly interested in (among plenty of things Amarnan I am interested in). Sorry to be mysterious, but I am probably too busy at the moment to start something I am personally unlikely to pursue with the intensity and consistency this thread began with (with one time break AlpinLuke will remember, lol!) Anyhow, I think if good threads are created, the people will come. Also, if people come with brave ideas, and a willingness to investigate openly, and discuss without fear, and not dismiss others out of hand - the greatest strength of this thread when it flows and takes on that ‘stream of consciousness’ vibe that Corvidius adroitly and aptly pointed out - then I think a return to more ‘specificised’ threads should be okay.🤞
 
Last edited:
I guess you mean the ones found in the Thutmose workshop. Is there such a thing as an inventory of objects from that place?
I have an old PDF that I think was from EEF on my computer so I'll try to dig that out as a starting point. Alcandra maybe you were involved in it? I'm going back to the mid-1990s to one of the old old mailing list groups. What I'll do is try to group the images by similarity to open the discussion face by face. Some are easily identifiable as Akhenaten of course, which perhaps isn't as interesting, but it is still a useful exercise to try to gather everything together with some notes about where the pieces are now.
 
Likes: Kyla

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
26,842
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Information:

I remember that this thread will be closed next Sunday at 22.00 [Italian local time].

Note: this thread won't be erased, it will remain available as archive to consult.
 
Mar 2019
373
Ogden, Utah
There are two pharaohs on the box lid inscription and one GRW[Meritaten]--three persons. You know one can't be a pharaoh and a Great Royal Wife simultaneously. In my view, these three persons are Akhenaten and his temporary coregent Neferneferuaten [who his Nefertiti]. Since Nefertiti has relinquished the title of GRW, Meritaten holds it now. Everyone should know by this time that Neferneferuaten is a female and cannot be Smenkhkare, a male.

boxelement.JPG
 
Oct 2011
26,842
Italy, Lago Maggiore
There are two pharaohs on the box lid inscription and one GRW[Meritaten]--three persons. You know one can't be a pharaoh and a Great Royal Wife simultaneously. In my view, these three persons are Akhenaten and his temporary coregent Neferneferuaten [who his Nefertiti]. Since Nefertiti has relinquished the title of GRW, Meritaten holds it now. Everyone should know by this time that Neferneferuaten is a female and cannot be Smenkhkare, a male.

View attachment 22963
It's nice to conclude this thread going back to its beginning ... now what's curious about this box is that the matter of fact that Petrie et al discovered Smenkhkare first influenced Egyptology for decades. Carter was still following the "mainstream" and seeing Ankhkheperure [regardless the epithet "Mery Neferkheperure"] he called the object "Wooden box of Smenkhkare" [Griffith Institute: Carter Archives - 001k]. I myself, at first sight, I made the same mistake, but then I realized that Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten was a different Monarch. On that box Smenkhkare isn't.

About the possibility that Nefertiti became also Smenkhkare, I keep that door open, but I don't think it's a hypothesis which can be sustained using strong arguments [while the identification of Nefertiti with Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten is quite possible to be sustained, even if still matter of discussion].
 
Mar 2019
373
Ogden, Utah
I'm not sure if I was the first to point out that a pharaoh who is beloved of another king in her cartouche was not meant to be a permanent one--but that is certainly a point I made in one or more of my papers. Male rulers who were intended to endure [and a male was the norm because females were only supposed to take the throne when the dynasty had run out of princes] were only beloved of the gods in their cartouches. However, it looks like provisional female rulers were acceptable under certain circumstances as long as they understood the reason for their temporary status. The only one that we know of who seems to have abused that was Hatshepsut, who made herself a king and remained one for much longer than was necessary, making excuses for doing so by inventing all kinds of fictions at her mortuary temple. But Ankh[et]kheperure Neferneferuaten had the interesting epithet of "effective for her husband", meaning she was king at the wish of this husband at some point--even though she might have become his widow eventually. This is the part people wish was better understood---what was the service Neferneferuaten was doing, or thought she was doing, for this husband? My guess is a regent for a small son. Even though Neferneferuaten might have also been a coregent with Akhenaten while he lived, I would doubt any kingly funerary equipment would have been made for her under those circumstances. Perhaps more likely when she became a regent for Tutankhamun but even that doesn't make too much sense as boys grow up fast. I am trying to understand the reason for those golden canopic coffinettes--and only them--as I strongly disagree with Reeves that the funerary mask of Tut was created for anyone else but him. Looking at other female pharaohs, Tawosret had a tomb in the Valley of the Kings but Altenmuller believes it was granted by her husband, Seti II. Her original images in KV14 were those of a queen consort and changed to kingly ones later. Hatshepsut once had a different tomb but I'm sure she intended KV20 as her kingly tomb--together with her father. She was the "daddy's girl" par excellence. But Thutmose III later removed him. There is supposed to be a shabti of Hatshepsut in existence but I do not know what it looks like. Anyway, she had a kingly sarcophagus. But I don't think Hatshepsut was typical for the female pharaohs of Egypt. I think she was a strange case with a huge ego. I don't understand at all why she has so many admirers. Well, most of them don't even know that much about her being the most basic amateurs. So I am baffled by the reason for the canopic coffinettes, later used for the burial of Tutankhamun. Why were they necessary? Did Neferneferuaten plan to continue to be a co-ruler with Tut even after he was grown a la Hatshepsut? After all, someone who knows she must step down soon does not try to acquire a lot of pharaonic burial equipment.
 
I'd say the circumstances and surviving material could suggest that she was attempting something like Hatchepsut achieved in remaining co-ruler. It may even have been the intention to emulate the success of Hatchepsut and Tuthmosis III's success. Another sign of this are the existence of Tut's contemporaries (possible close friends) like Nakhtmin who were army men. Horemheb also harked back to Tuthmosis III in at least one inscription. Perhaps Hatchepsut was not in later king lists precisely because of the overlap she had with Tuthmosis III, so despite her being seen as a king by contemporaries, perhaps as a result of time and the actions later in Tuthmosis III's or Amenhotep II's reign she was viewed as less important than she was in her lifetime? In the same way perhaps Neferneferuaten was similarly erased to a large degree, once her charge reached adulthood and she presumably was dead. What's puzzling to me is where Smenkhkare and Meritaten fit into all of this. I can buy Neferneferuaten's role being logical as Tut was so young. The only way I can see that this all fits is if Smenkhkare came first, died after a very short reign, and then Neferneferuaten ruled with Meritaten continuing in the GRW role, as long as Tut was a minor. Neferneferuaten and Meritaten then attempted to continue their family line with Ankhensenamun marrying Tut. Whoever Nefertiti was, and whoever Tut's mother was, that marriage to the next living sister makes a lot of sense.
 
Status
Closed

Similar History Discussions