An objective history of the State of Israel.

Aug 2011
73
#11
Belisarius, Many thanks for the book title and other writers names. I'm pulling together a reading list and taking those books I can afford to buy on a long reading weekend away from TV and the like.
 
Aug 2011
73
#12
I picked up the two following reviews as soon as I entered the title and they look good.

Guardian review.
Enemies and Neighbours by Ian Black review – Arabs and Jews in Palestine and Israel. This even-handed history by the Guardian’s former Middle East editor draws on 40 years of experience and exhaustive research.


The Balfour Project
“Enemies and Neighbours” Arabs and Jews in Palestine and Israel, by Ian Black 1917-2017 Posted July 29, 2018 Book review. By Tim Llewellyn
 
Aug 2011
73
#13
I wrote at the start of this post, “I am looking for some reading matter that will take me through the history of the state of Israel recognizing that it may be difficult matter to find anything really objective”

I then found the following from Belisarius who wrote. “As a Moderator, I've had to get "up to speed" on the Israel-Palestine in the past. What I've found, is that there is no truely "objective" account out there. The best way to research the topic is to read as many books on the subject from all perspectives, then make your own determination.” Well, I certainly could not disagree with that. However, I’m not sure that I can accept. “There are three sides to every story, your side, my side and the truth.” The reason that is the case is best explained by my reference to the Correspondence Theory of truth which states that a belief is false when it does not reflect states-of-affairs, events, or things accurately. In other words for our beliefs to be true, our beliefs must agree with what is real.

Truth is much more complex than we often think and a good example of how complex the search for it can be is best explained by looking at one of the great debates such as the argument for the existence of God. One doesn’t necessarily have to be a Christian to be able to welcome the sheer eloquence of the Father Copleston vs. Bertrand Russell in that famous BBC Radio Debate in 1948 on the Existence of God and its really worth finding it on the Internet if only because it shows that one does have to accept certain rules of debate if one is going to discover truth. I wrote above, "I'm pulling together a reading list and taking those books I can afford to buy on a long reading weekend away from TV and the like." It looks like a long haul from the enormous list I'm looking at and I look forward to returning to this forum with some conclusions to my search.
 
Likes: Edratman

Edratman

Forum Staff
Feb 2009
6,694
Eastern PA
#14
I wrote at the start of this post, “I am looking for some reading matter that will take me through the history of the state of Israel recognizing that it may be difficult matter to find anything really objective”

It looks like a long haul from the enormous list I'm looking at and I look forward to returning to this forum with some conclusions to my search.
I am looking forward to see the fruits of your efforts.
 
Aug 2011
73
#15
I thought it a good idea were I to look for some recommendations as to what books I should look at and the following are what I've bought so far. I've also copied some reviews of some of those books. The problem is that I have not started to read any of them so far.
Against Our Better Judgment, by Alison Weir
Bitter Harvest: Palestine 1914-79 Revised Edition Paperback – 1983
Books on the history of Israel.
Enemies and Neighbors” Arabs and Jews in Palestine and Israel, by Ian Black.
Intimate Enemies: Jews and Arabs in a Shared Land Author: Meron Benvenisti.
Israel The Impossible Land. Attias and Benbassa

Israel: A History by Dr Martin Gilbert
Jerusalem: The Biography, Simon Sebag Montefiore,
My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Israel.” by Ari Shavit
On Palestine of Noam Chomsky,Ilan Pappé,Frank Barat.
Palestine Betrayed. Efraim Karsh
Semites & Anti-Semites Bernard Lewis

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Pappé £8.25
The Iron Cage
, by Rashid Khalidi 281pp, Oneworld
The Man Who Created the Middle East of Sykes, Christopher Simon
The Other Israel: The Radical Case Against Zionism
by Arie Bober
The Routlage Atlas of the Arab – Israeli Conflict Dr Martin Gilbert
Zionism The Birth and Transformation of an Ideal. Milton Viorst
Now, which one should I start with?
 

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
9,262
here
#16
I thought it a good idea were I to look for some recommendations as to what books I should look at and the following are what I've bought so far. I've also copied some reviews of some of those books. The problem is that I have not started to read any of them so far.
Against Our Better Judgment, by Alison Weir
Bitter Harvest: Palestine 1914-79 Revised Edition Paperback – 1983
Books on the history of Israel.
Enemies and Neighbors” Arabs and Jews in Palestine and Israel, by Ian Black.
Intimate Enemies: Jews and Arabs in a Shared Land Author: Meron Benvenisti.
Israel The Impossible Land. Attias and Benbassa
Israel: A History
by Dr Martin Gilbert
Jerusalem: The Biography, Simon Sebag Montefiore,
My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Israel.” by Ari Shavit
On Palestine of Noam Chomsky,Ilan Pappé,Frank Barat.
Palestine Betrayed. Efraim Karsh
Semites & Anti-Semites Bernard Lewis
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Pappé £8.25
The Iron Cage
, by Rashid Khalidi 281pp, Oneworld
The Man Who Created the Middle East of Sykes, Christopher Simon
The Other Israel: The Radical Case Against Zionism
by Arie Bober
The Routlage Atlas of the Arab – Israeli Conflict Dr Martin Gilbert
Zionism The Birth and Transformation of an Ideal. Milton Viorst
Now, which one should I start with?
I highlighted the book I think you should start with.

And to be honest, you have here some books on this list that aren't even serious efforts at being history books. They're more accurately described as polemic, diatribes, hit pieces, etc.
 
Dec 2011
2,354
#17
I thought it a good idea were I to look for some recommendations as to what books I should look at and the following are what I've bought so far. I've also copied some reviews of some of those books. The problem is that I have not started to read any of them so far.
Against Our Better Judgment, by Alison Weir
Bitter Harvest: Palestine 1914-79 Revised Edition Paperback – 1983
Books on the history of Israel.
Enemies and Neighbors” Arabs and Jews in Palestine and Israel, by Ian Black.
Intimate Enemies: Jews and Arabs in a Shared Land Author: Meron Benvenisti.
Israel The Impossible Land. Attias and Benbassa

Israel: A History by Dr Martin Gilbert
Jerusalem: The Biography, Simon Sebag Montefiore,
My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Israel.” by Ari Shavit
On Palestine of Noam Chomsky,Ilan Pappé,Frank Barat.
Palestine Betrayed. Efraim Karsh
Semites & Anti-Semites Bernard Lewis

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Pappé £8.25
The Iron Cage
, by Rashid Khalidi 281pp, Oneworld
The Man Who Created the Middle East of Sykes, Christopher Simon
The Other Israel: The Radical Case Against Zionism
by Arie Bober
The Routlage Atlas of the Arab – Israeli Conflict Dr Martin Gilbert
Zionism The Birth and Transformation of an Ideal. Milton Viorst
Now, which one should I start with?
That's one long list. Let us know your thoughts when you have read them (it could be a long time).
 
Likes: Futurist
Aug 2011
73
#18
I highlighted the book I think you should start with.

"And to be honest, you have here some books on this list that aren't even serious efforts at being history books. They're more accurately described as polemic, diatribes, hit pieces, etc".
You are absolutely correct. As I attempt to start reading I only wish I had the comfort of the sort of tutoring I was lucky enough to receive at university when one's tutor gave out book lists which rightly or wrongly one trusted. I was going to say, A problem I am facing is that Jewish history can so easily be confused with current Israeli history which of course is unfair so I won't say it.
 
Likes: Futurist
Feb 2011
1,081
Scotland
#19
You are absolutely correct. As I attempt to start reading I only wish I had the comfort of the sort of tutoring I was lucky enough to receive at university when one's tutor gave out book lists which rightly or wrongly one trusted. I was going to say, A problem I am facing is that Jewish history can so easily be confused with current Israeli history which of course is unfair so I won't say it.
Hi,

I understand what you are saying but it depends what you mean by 'Jewish History'.
Israel is an inextricable part of Jewish history since its foundation and continues to be so. You can discuss the history of Israel as it stands, as a discrete issue, but it is also simultaneously an intimate element of Jewish history. I can't see why that should be deemed unfair.
 
Aug 2011
73
#20
I think that in the UK when one mentions Israel one will find three reactions.
1. That of an absolute supporter of the state of Israel.
2. That of a person who knows nothing about Israel and doesn't want to.
3. That of a person who is critical of the way that Israel has become a state.
Obviously there will be various levels of support for each faction.
Rightly or wrongly I perceive Jewish history to be that which covers the period prior to 1947 and Israeli history following that period. Having said that obviously the latter can be perceived as an intimate element of Jewish history. I hope that is not confusing.
 
Likes: Futurist

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