Antifascist resistance in France and Serbia durning World War II

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,766
San Antonio, Tx
After the occupation of France (1939) and the Kingdom of Yugoslavia (1941), the Nazis imposed the most rigorous rules in France and Serbia. Example, for one dead German soldier, 100 civilians would be shot. The French government advised people not to give resistance to the German occupation, in the hope that the allied army would succeed in releasing them soon.Yugoslavia was occupied completely in 11 days. The army of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia had no time to mobilize, i.e. the mobilization was ordered is too late. But even so, a large number of civilians took weapons and entered the streets by resisting the German occupation. France was largely relieved of the intervention of the United Kingdom and the United States of America. While Partisan leaders led by Marshal Josip Broz Tito successfully freed most of their teroriir from the enemy before the forces of the Red Army came.

France received a special position within the United Nations Security Council, as well as control over part of Germany. While Yugoslavia only received praise from both sides. The Allies wanted to weaken the Soviet influence in Europe, putting pressure on the liberated countries to oppose the "new evil". And to choose instead a democratic system. The leadership of the Soviet Union was shocked by the fact that the Marshall Plan did not encompass the Soviet Union and their "puppet states", as well as the pressure of the Allies that territories under the auspices of the USSR become democracies and decide for themselves which political system to choose.

How do you characterize the role of France and Serbia (Yugoslavia) in the Second World War?
Let me correct you about one thing: the US offered the Marshall Plan to the Soviet Union, but they turned it down. Idiots. Free money, who could refuse that? The Soviets could and did.
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,743
Lower Styria, Slovenia
Why is Yugoslavia equated with Serbia here? There weren't just Serbs in the Partisans. Actually, Partisans initially weren't even popular in Serbia because people rather supported the četniks, which is understandable because it was their tradition. If you look at where the most action was taking place and where the biggest freed territories were, it was in Bosnia. Then again, I don't see why we even have to point at one of the nations or one of the later republics at all when all Yugoslav ethnicities were in the partisans and they performed actions in all parts of Yugoslavia. That was their strength - they could overcome ethnic differences to fight for a common goal and spread across the whole country, while other movements like Serbian or Montenegrin četniks (as two distinct groups) could not, regimes like the Ustaše or Nedićists did not want to, or the Slovene MVAC and Home Guard didn't need to.
 
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Futurist

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May 2014
22,750
SoCal
All that doesn't mean the Partisans liberated most of Yugoslavia before 1944 which is what the OP claimed. I do honor the Partisans and I admit that, unlike the Chetniks, they never collaborated with the Axis, but let's not exaggerate their accomplishments. Speaking of Jasenovac, one must ask the question why the Partisans never tried to liberate it.
Why didn't they try to liberate it?
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,793
Republika Srpska
Why didn't they try to liberate it?
As I said, a controversial question. The official reason was that it was simply militarily very hard to do, almost impossible and that the Partisans couldn't risk it. However, there are certain indications that perhaps some other things were at play. For example, Pavle Jakšić, colonel-general of the Yugoslav People's Army and the member of the Partisans had this to say about the potential liberation of Jasenovac:
"I think that this operation - whether diversionary or a real military one - which would have been an attack on relatively small security forces would have been a real joke (very easy) for our army."
He also adds that in 1942 and 1943 there were real plans to liberate the camp, but that everything was stopped by Vladimir Bakarić, an important Communist figure and a polticial commissar and all those who proposed this liberation of the camp "ended their lives in a mysterious manner or suffered unexpected political and moral breakdowns".

In January 1943 Partisans Bogdan Crnobrnja and Marijan Stilinović also proposed the liberation of the camp, but the Partisan Chief Headquarters of Croatia failed to respond. In the summer of 1944 another plan appeared, this time it was a very detailed plan, but Andrija Hebrang, one of the leading Croatian Communists merely said that the camp can't be liberate. Hebrang was a Greater Croat nationalist and would be purged after Yugoslavia's break with Moscow due to links with Stalin, but at the same time Hebrang would also be accused of co-operating with the Ustaše during the war. Now, I don't know if that is true, but Hebrang did stop this plan to liberate Jasenovac.
 
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macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
4,198
Slovenia, EU
All that doesn't mean the Partisans liberated most of Yugoslavia before 1944 which is what the OP claimed. I do honor the Partisans and I admit that, unlike the Chetniks, they never collaborated with the Axis, but let's not exaggerate their accomplishments. Speaking of Jasenovac, one must ask the question why the Partisans never tried to liberate it.
Partisans were partially collaborating with Italians on some occasions. Pacts of non attacking or in Slovenia they mopped white guard in 1943 together.
Battle of Grčarice - Wikipedia
Siege of Turjak - Wikipedia
Here is on intention wrong statement by some neocommunist history revisionist: "The siege ended on 19 September with a Partisan victory, much thanks to heavy weapons that they had acquired from Italian forces. "

Communists also acquired Italian gun crews but we are used of falsificated history in our neosocialist state which is hidden behind a veil of democracy. They do it all the time.


Italians got free pass to Italy as a result of partisan-Italian trade and generals who were executing civiians earlier were shaking hands with partisan commanders while being escorted to Italian border. Partisans also entered negotiations with Germans in 1943 in which they offered Germans to act together against allies if British land in Balkans. Their main goal was not a liberation but a revolution so it is logical. British occupational force in Yugoslavia would have never allowed a communist revolution to take a place.
 
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macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
4,198
Slovenia, EU
Why didn't they try to liberate it?
It was not a partisan goal. You all bought that liberation was their goal but communists did nothing after Yugoslavia was occupied, they praised Stalin-Hitler pact. In my country they were making an anti imperialist front three weeks after occupation of Yugoslavia aimed against western allies. Later they renamed it into a Liberation front.

Communists wanted to take all power and make a revolution- mass slaughter of enemies and perceived class enemies and redistribution of wealth (state plunder of everything).