Antifascist resistance in France and Serbia durning World War II

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,728
SoCal
#21
It was not a partisan goal. You all bought that liberation was their goal but communists did nothing after Yugoslavia was occupied, they praised Stalin-Hitler pact. In my country they were making an anti imperialist front three weeks after occupation of Yugoslavia aimed against western allies. Later they renamed it into a Liberation front.

Communists wanted to take all power and make a revolution- mass slaughter of enemies and perceived class enemies and redistribution of wealth (state plunder of everything).
Tito's Yugoslavia was certainly totalitarian, but it wasn't exactly known for mass murder--was it?

TBF, most of Partisans in Bosnia were Serbs. NDH intelligence from late 1943 estimated that about 70% of the Partisans in Bosnia were ethnic Serbs. In fact, the lowest Serb numerical share of the Partisan movement was 44% in 1944.
I'm surprised that such detailed data exists on the composition of a clandestine resistance movement--especially one from 75+ years ago.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,683
Republika Srpska
#22
Eh...by late 1943, the Partisans stopped being simply a resistance movement and were already becoming a state-creating organization with its own government, services, armed forces etc.
 
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macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
3,867
Slovenia, EU
#23
Tito's Yugoslavia was certainly totalitarian, but it wasn't exactly known for mass murder--was it?
Less than 10% of German prisoners were returned to Germany in 1955, 10 years after end of war. Most of others were executed, few hundred meters from where I live was a concentration camp and few execution grounds.

Only in Slovenia there are over 700 killing grounds where they killed 200-300.000 people in two months after end of WWII. After German attack of Soviet Union communists organised a resistance with an overall idea that war will be soon over and Soviets victorious because they were having more heavy weaponry than whole world combined. So they started preparing a ground for a revolution with killing of their perceived enemies (Slovenian patriots were targeted by both communists and occupators) and they killed 1000-2000 people only in one part of Slovenia under Italian occupation until spring of 1942 before first white guards emerged.

Slovene Lands in World War II - Wikipedia


In south eastern part called Province of Ljubljana (black part in west was directly made a part of Italy, green was a Hungarian occupational zone, dark grey a part of reich, green circle in down right means a concentrated German ethnic minority from middle ages- about 12.000 people in heavily forrested area) communists also executed more than half of local gypsies from little children on (few hundreds in total). They were all labelled as traitors. And it goes on and on.
 
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Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,683
Republika Srpska
#24
Partisans were partially collaborating with Italians on some occasions. Pacts of non attacking or in Slovenia they mopped white guard in 1943 together.
Battle of Grčarice - Wikipedia
Siege of Turjak - Wikipedia
Here is on intention wrong statement by some neocommunist history revisionist: "The siege ended on 19 September with a Partisan victory, much thanks to heavy weapons that they had acquired from Italian forces. "

Communists also acquired Italian gun crews but we are used of falsificated history in our neosocialist state which is hidden behind a veil of democracy. They do it all the time.


Italians got free pass to Italy as a result of partisan-Italian trade and generals who were executing civiians earlier were shaking hands with partisan commanders while being escorted to Italian border. Partisans also entered negotiations with Germans in 1943 in which they offered Germans to act together against allies if British land in Balkans. Their main goal was not a liberation but a revolution so it is logical. British occupational force in Yugoslavia would have never allowed a communist revolution to take a place.
I didn't know about those battles in Slovenia. Thank you for informing me. :)

However, yes, you are right about the March Negotiations with the Germans. The Partisans were willing to put aside their war against the Axis in order to stop the Allied landings.
 
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Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,683
Republika Srpska
#25
Tito's Yugoslavia was certainly totalitarian, but it wasn't exactly known for mass murder--was it?
The Partisans were not above purging anyone they considered a possible opponent. Unfortunately, many Serbs ended up as Communist victims. Thing is, the Communist kind of considered Serbs a potentially problematic nation because of a long-standing Serb monarchical traditon and their support of the Chetniks during the war. The Yugoslav Communists started their purges already in 1941 in the Užice Republic. The Užice Republic was a Partisan-controlled territory in Serbia in 1941. Communist repression and their attempts to introduce collectivization led to much of the peasantry in the region turning their backs on Tito which helped the Axis and the Chetniks destroy this Republic. However, most of the purges happened between October 1944 and May 1945, so after the Communists took control over much of Serbia. The exact numbers are unclear, but it is estimated that around 60,000 people lost their lives. Many killings were carried by the infamous OZNA, a Communist security agency. Around 30,000 people died in Central Serbia (Serbia minus Vojvodina and Kosovo), Belgrade was especially targeted because it was a royal capital for a long time, but killings happened in Niš, Kragujevac etc. Most victims were killed without trial, which caused controversy even within Partisan ranks. Aleksandar Ranković, the creater of OZNA, actually opposed this practice. Killings also happened in Vojvodina. Most victims there were Serbs (around 20,000) but there were also German victims. As we know, Yugoslavia expelled their German population following the war.
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,517
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#26
Tito's Yugoslavia was certainly totalitarian, but it wasn't exactly known for mass murder--was it?
It kinda is. Although they managed to cover up their crimes for decades. Once Yugoslavia broke appart, suddenly they started to uncover one mass grave after the other in Slovenia. All swiftly executed collaborationist soldiers and civilians who fled to Austria but were returned by the British. The partisans marched them back to Croatia but killed the majority without trial along the way and threw them in mining shafts, caves and similar. They had special camps for Germans after the war. They were hostile against the Jews and killed like half the gypsies of Lower Carniola, like macon said. I think political assassinations started already in 1941 when they murdered the former Ban of Drava Banovina, Marko Natlačen. Sometimes they just killed their own if there was a fear of traitors in their lines. The partisans had a weird ability of often acting without thinking it through thoroughly. And afterwards the local population got all the sh*t from the occupying force. I don't support them, I want this to be clear, but I can understand why the MVAC and Slovene Homeguard were created. Later developments comolicated things and basically every side in the war in Yugoslavia has "**** on their heads", as we say.
 
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macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
3,867
Slovenia, EU
#27
Communists also killed their own if they were too strict by the book, if they were so called righteous communists. Many of them openly pursued crime as personal vendettas, theft because opportunity showed and they were an armed law. Same practice was after WWII. I put a link to a famous dissident who was in top of Yugoslavian party but was against a so called "new class" of party's top who were living lives of the rich after WWII because of totalitarian repression.

Milovan Đilas - Wikipedia
 
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Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,683
Republika Srpska
#28
I have little sympathy for Đilas. He was responsible for the Partisan crimes in Montenegro (euphemistically called Leftist Errors) and he was one of the architects of the Montenegrin nation.
 

macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
3,867
Slovenia, EU
#29
I have little sympathy for Đilas. He was responsible for the Partisan crimes in Montenegro (euphemistically called Leftist Errors) and he was one of the architects of the Montenegrin nation.
How many people were executed in Montenegro? I don't know much about matters there, I know there were both chetniks and partisans.

His strict position still makes him an interesting character after WWII because it was the easiest to shut up and enjoy being on top.
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,517
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#30
Here's a map of mass graves in Slovenia alone that have been discovered in the past couple of decades or so.



Red - location confirmed, mass grave confirmed.
Pink - location confirmed, still in need of research.
Blue - aproximate location, reliable sources.
Violet - aproximate location, unreliable sources.
Green - emptied mass grave, documented removal.
Turqoise - emptied mass grave, undocumented removal.
Yellow - not a mass grave.
 
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