Anything about the human body

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,537
Florania
#1
I reject the Christian concept that the human body is divinely designed; rather, it is a product of long evolution.
The healthy human body and mind functions relatively decent, and the human body, as a product of evolution, has various defects.
An example is the development of cataract, cancer, and other diseases.
Neither modern medicine nor traditional medicine have YET defeated aging and most disabilities.
Now, let's be revolutionary and think of something:
Can we eventually defeat aging and disabilities?
What would happen if we realize the Abh humans in the Seikai series, for an example?
If consciousness can be transferred to an android body that functions better than any existing human bodies, should we do it?
Time often means achievements.
Even zero dallying means so much time in hand.
 
Apr 2017
306
The Ancient World
#2
Since you mentioned the Christians, who are absolutists (much like atheists), let me tell you that we Greek polytheists support a balanced view. We hold that the Gods put perfection in the proportions of man, as in all other things in the world, and also that the laws of evolution, which are indeed divine laws of nature and the universe (only discovered by evidence, not invented by whim), brought man gradually to that perfection.

In a religious sense, we are imperfect and always subject to defects. In a scientific sense, we will likewise always remain subject to defects. I have heard of the speculation and ambition of some so-called "scientists" to aim at "defeating" age and all diseases. It is a rather boastful, desperate, and sad attempt on their parts to deny reality, or (at best) to make themselves famous at the expense of their field. This is not my view alone; I have also heard other learned men of great scientific knowledge assert that such attempts are in vain, and may even prove quite dangerous to morality and human society if pursued too seriously. Believe me, it is not possible to transfer "human consciousness into androids", nor is it to be encouraged; we have enough scientific studies to conduct of great importance, and we ought to be satisfied in what we are, what we have been, and what we will always be.
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,537
Florania
#3
Since you mentioned the Christians, who are absolutists (much like atheists), let me tell you that we Greek polytheists support a balanced view. We hold that the Gods put perfection in the proportions of man, as in all other things in the world, and also that the laws of evolution, which are indeed divine laws of nature and the universe (only discovered by evidence, not invented by whim), brought man gradually to that perfection.

In a religious sense, we are imperfect and always subject to defects. In a scientific sense, we will likewise always remain subject to defects. I have heard of the speculation and ambition of some so-called "scientists" to aim at "defeating" age and all diseases. It is a rather boastful, desperate, and sad attempt on their parts to deny reality, or (at best) to make themselves famous at the expense of their field. This is not my view alone; I have also heard other learned men of great scientific knowledge assert that such attempts are in vain, and may even prove quite dangerous to morality and human society if pursued too seriously. Believe me, it is not possible to transfer "human consciousness into androids", nor is it to be encouraged; we have enough scientific studies to conduct of great importance, and we ought to be satisfied in what we are, what we have been, and what we will always be.
We can still make substantial "improvements" on maintaining the human body.
As a hobbyist of Chinese medicine (not enough training to be a full-fledged practitioner), I learn that aging can be AT LEAST delayed and reversed to a degree.
Becoming Abh humans in the Seikai series is a little far-fetched; we can envision something such as:
Bionic limbs that are at least as good as the biological parts.
The amputee teenager in New Zealand, Charlotte Cleverley-Bisman, is a good example; she lost her limbs due to meningococcal disease. If we can develop fully functional bionic limbs, it will improve quality of life rather substantially.
Limb regeneration is a little far-fetched as well.
Organs from labs rather than from living humans or corpses. In spite of the insistence of modern medicine, most people living with a single kidney have lower quality of life in comparison with people with both functional kidneys.
We cannot defeat all diseases and aging YET; the attempt to improve the condition is still necessary.
 
Jan 2010
4,439
Atlanta, Georgia USA
#4
Since you mentioned the Christians, who are absolutists (much like atheists), let me tell you that we Greek polytheists support a balanced view. We hold that the Gods put perfection in the proportions of man, as in all other things in the world, and also that the laws of evolution, which are indeed divine laws of nature and the universe (only discovered by evidence, not invented by whim), brought man gradually to that perfection.

In a religious sense, we are imperfect and always subject to defects. In a scientific sense, we will likewise always remain subject to defects. I have heard of the speculation and ambition of some so-called "scientists" to aim at "defeating" age and all diseases. It is a rather boastful, desperate, and sad attempt on their parts to deny reality, or (at best) to make themselves famous at the expense of their field. This is not my view alone; I have also heard other learned men of great scientific knowledge assert that such attempts are in vain, and may even prove quite dangerous to morality and human society if pursued too seriously. Believe me, it is not possible to transfer "human consciousness into androids", nor is it to be encouraged; we have enough scientific studies to conduct of great importance, and we ought to be satisfied in what we are, what we have been, and what we will always be.
Andronikos--so the Greek philosophers had a theory of evolution? Can you cite some examples?

Agree with you on attempting to defeat death and aging in this world. It's impossible.
 
Oct 2013
6,390
Planet Nine, Oregon
#6
The very forces that cause us to mature and achieve our potential are the very forces that destroy us. We are a process. We will never defeat illness and disease; there will always be something there to end us. Living forever (with our current minds) would be a torture worse than death. Possibly one day we would be able to transmit some of our mental activity over to machines, but it would only be a clever simulacrum of the mind that it modeled, not the person itself. Our bodies and minds are integrated.
 
Oct 2009
3,601
San Diego
#7
Greek Polytheists?

So you affect an even sillier delusion by delegation row numerous magical sky daddies?


The notion that an android body would be " superior" to a human body is, itself, an artifact of magical thinking.

I mean, seriously, THINK about it... human beings have not built a machine that can run for mere years without wearing out and requiring constant expensive maintenance.

Thanks to quantum tunneling, Integrated circuits are only good for about 12- 18 years before they become so compromised that they can not reliably run code.
A 20 year old car is a collectors item.

And most of us have a drawer full of Floppy or Zip discs, as well as cables and power adapts that no longer plug into anything or are otherwise unreadable.


The human body can reliably run for 70 PLUS YEARS! with little to zero maintenance or repair- because it does that stuff for itself.

And the best self contained robots in the world can run for about 25 minutes before they need 4 hours to recharge the batteries that require a world wide network of rare earth mining and refining operations, and create toxic landfill. ( or they rely on a gas powered engine to generate the electricity they require )
- whereas the human body can be powered by the stuff that grows out of the dirt.


We will do far better trying to extend human organic life than getting human minds transferred into machinery that is obsolete within a decade, and incapable of running for much longer without replacement parts that will no longer be made.

Without our genes, our endocrine systems, our complexly nuanced feedback system and symbiosis with certain kinds of bacteria- it is arguable that any 'simulation' of our consciousness on a computer will simply NOT be human in any meaningful regard.

And I don't NEED the android body for its greater strength... or its computer processing power, because I HAVE machines to do the heavy works and computers to run calculations.




It is the height of hubris to even imagine that we can intentionally engineer something that will out perform the product of 1 billion years of selective evolutionary iteration.
Sure- maybe we can fix some of the flaws we THINK we see in our own non-intentional design... but given that we do not even fully comprehend how our own bodies work, I doubt we can even be sure that what we see as flaws are in fact flaws.
They might be the best possible solution that actually works.


Sorry- I design products for a living... and so I understand that the things human beings produce are vastly MORE flawed and less reliable than even the simplest bacteria.

Every year, products are recalled, and every year a significant percentage of the things you buy are a profound disappointment in terms of function or durability.

Give me a longer life... in more robust health... sure. A fancier cell phone, fine. But the last thing I need is a mechanical body that won't last any longer than my VCR, Fax Machine, or Car did.
 

Port

Ad Honorem
Feb 2013
2,087
portland maine
#8
Greek Polytheists?

So you affect an even sillier delusion by delegation row numerous magical sky daddies?


The notion that an android body would be " superior" to a human body is, itself, an artifact of magical thinking.

I mean, seriously, THINK about it... human beings have not built a machine that can run for mere years without wearing out and requiring constant expensive maintenance.

Thanks to quantum tunneling, Integrated circuits are only good for about 12- 18 years before they become so compromised that they can not reliably run code.
A 20 year old car is a collectors item.

And most of us have a drawer full of Floppy or Zip discs, as well as cables and power adapts that no longer plug into anything or are otherwise unreadable.


The human body can reliably run for 70 PLUS YEARS! with little to zero maintenance or repair- because it does that stuff for itself.

And the best self contained robots in the world can run for about 25 minutes before they need 4 hours to recharge the batteries that require a world wide network of rare earth mining and refining operations, and create toxic landfill. ( or they rely on a gas powered engine to generate the electricity they require )
- whereas the human body can be powered by the stuff that grows out of the dirt.


We will do far better trying to extend human organic life than getting human minds transferred into machinery that is obsolete within a decade, and incapable of running for much longer without replacement parts that will no longer be made.

Without our genes, our endocrine systems, our complexly nuanced feedback system and symbiosis with certain kinds of bacteria- it is arguable that any 'simulation' of our consciousness on a computer will simply NOT be human in any meaningful regard.

And I don't NEED the android body for its greater strength... or its computer processing power, because I HAVE machines to do the heavy works and computers to run calculations.




It is the height of hubris to even imagine that we can intentionally engineer something that will out perform the product of 1 billion years of selective evolutionary iteration.
Sure- maybe we can fix some of the flaws we THINK we see in our own non-intentional design... but given that we do not even fully comprehend how our own bodies work, I doubt we can even be sure that what we see as flaws are in fact flaws.
They might be the best possible solution that actually works.


Sorry- I design products for a living... and so I understand that the things human beings produce are vastly MORE flawed and less reliable than even the simplest bacteria.

Every year, products are recalled, and every year a significant percentage of the things you buy are a profound disappointment in terms of function or durability.

Give me a longer life... in more robust health... sure. A fancier cell phone, fine. But the last thing I need is a mechanical body that won't last any longer than my VCR, Fax Machine, or Car did.
Back to human anatomy. with the history of women dying in childbirth. It seems that there should have evolved a safer physiological manner of childbirth or a body type that is at less risk. 2013 18.5 deaths per 100,000 live births. I will make an assumption that the US is worse then most developed countries. but for the past thousands of years giving birth was a risk of life or death.
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,537
Florania
#9
Back to human anatomy. with the history of women dying in childbirth. It seems that there should have evolved a safer physiological manner of childbirth or a body type that is at less risk. 2013 18.5 deaths per 100,000 live births. I will make an assumption that the US is worse then most developed countries. but for the past thousands of years giving birth was a risk of life or death.
Childbirth is often cited as the #1 human evolution flaw.
What would be the next major human evolution flaw?
 
Apr 2017
711
Lemuria
#10
Since you mentioned the Christians, who are absolutists (much like atheists), let me tell you that we Greek polytheists support a balanced view. We hold that the Gods put perfection in the proportions of man, as in all other things in the world, and also that the laws of evolution, which are indeed divine laws of nature and the universe (only discovered by evidence, not invented by whim), brought man gradually to that perfection.

In a religious sense, we are imperfect and always subject to defects. In a scientific sense, we will likewise always remain subject to defects. I have heard of the speculation and ambition of some so-called "scientists" to aim at "defeating" age and all diseases. It is a rather boastful, desperate, and sad attempt on their parts to deny reality, or (at best) to make themselves famous at the expense of their field. This is not my view alone; I have also heard other learned men of great scientific knowledge assert that such attempts are in vain, and may even prove quite dangerous to morality and human society if pursued too seriously. Believe me, it is not possible to transfer "human consciousness into androids", nor is it to be encouraged; we have enough scientific studies to conduct of great importance, and we ought to be satisfied in what we are, what we have been, and what we will always be.
An atheist isn't an absolutist; an anti-theist is. Atheism is the rejection of the god claim. If you provide sufficient evidence there is no reason an atheist will deny god. It's just there is zero valid evidence and every single one presented is easily debunked.
In anything a scientific approach is the only reasonable way to investigate the universe and any god claim.
 
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