Archaeology Updates (India)

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,349
USA
@Aatreya, according to you why was the urbanization we see in the IVC culture lost? Why wasn't it revived until a further 1000 years? Or do you think urbanization didn't die out at all?
Urabanization was lost because of environmental factors. When it was no more possible for large populations to cluster together, people had to spread out in different directions, and it apparently seems that the urbanization slowly came down. Whether or not it was completely lost can be questionable if we find more evidences for the time period till Mauryas.
 
Oct 2015
778
India
Just because you say that Indo-Aryans landed and mixed in waves itself doesn't let the controversy die. It is only after we firmly establish that the Aryans and Harappans are not different peoples that this bogus theory will die.

How much of common sense does it require to read and understand that the geography and fauna of the Vedic people are from the same area that the Harappan remains are excavated? This is the only country where people intuitively do not believe that the archaeological remains are reflection of the stories depicted in texts! It is unbelievable to see that the people of India still hold on to their colonial masters' fantasies.

Wake up Indians, wake up! Show some originality in thought, question the narratives handed down by the Europeans.
Dear @Aatreya

You are correct that the area occupied by the Harappan civilization and that occupied by Rig Vedic people is exactly the same. Almost everyone has to agree with this, and I also.

And yes, there is a need to make corrections so that whatever was due to 'colonial mindset' gets revised in narrating history. And more importantly in other aspects of civilization. It is a slow journey.

"This is the only country where people intuitively do not believe that the archaeological remains are reflection of the stories depicted in texts! It is unbelievable to see that the people of India still hold on to their colonial masters' fantasies."​

Since this thread is archaeology, I would refrain from discussing it here.

Regards

Rajeev
 
Oct 2015
778
India
@Aatreya, according to you why was the urbanization we see in the IVC culture lost? Why wasn't it revived until a further 1000 years? Or do you think urbanization didn't die out at all?
My view is coming around to the fact that there was hardly any de-urbanization. All that happened was a short disruption (100-200 years) during which population centres moved away from Harappan domain. They grew up in other geographies.

We have not dug up any major sites in India. Archaeology is suffering from lack of funds, lack of energy, and lack of interest! For example there is a huge mound in Kannuaj which has not been excavated. We know about Rakhigarhi in INdus-Gangetic divide. In Rakhigarhi there is hardly any progress in decades - even though it is claimed to be larger than Harappa and Mohen-jo-daro. Even the site @Ajathashatru has mentioned (Nani Khatia) is around 5 sq kms. **

Once there are more excavations, we are likely to find continuous urban civilization from Harappan till date. As cities fall, new ones arise.

**PS: Till that time theft of artefacts will continue. Newspaper reports in India say you can go to Rakhigarhi and buy ancient artefacts because the the area has not physical protecting and is close to habitation. Pakistan is one step ahead of India in this. You can find Facebook advertisements selling ancient artefacts and coins.
 
May 2013
1,600
The abode of the lord of the north
My view is coming around to the fact that there was hardly any de-urbanization. All that happened was a short disruption (100-200 years) during which population centres moved away from Harappan domain. They grew up in other geographies.
Yes, even I believe that! Idea that they gave up urbanization and re-invneted it during 6th century BC is really weird to be honest. There are also certain PGW sites which are really huge.

We have not dug up any major sites in India. Archaeology is suffering from lack of funds, lack of energy, and lack of interest! For example there is a huge mound in Kannuaj which has not been excavated. We know about Rakhigarhi in INdus-Gangetic divide. In Rakhigarhi there is hardly any progress in decades - even though it is claimed to be larger than Harappa and Mohen-jo-daro. Even the site @Ajathashatru has mentioned (Nani Khatia) is around 5 sq kms. **

Once there are more excavations, we are likely to find continuous urban civilization from Harappan till date. As cities fall, new ones arise.

**PS: Till that time theft of artefacts will continue. Newspaper reports in India say you can go to Rakhigarhi and buy ancient artefacts because the the area has not physical protecting and is close to habitation. Pakistan is one step ahead of India in this. You can find Facebook advertisements selling ancient artefacts and coins.
Horizontal excavations needs to be done in many citites. Also, the exact identification of the spots-to-be-excavated is quintessential. Remember the excavation from the Purana Quila hasn't yielded a PGW stratum yet, it is just found in shreds.
 
Oct 2015
778
India
This paper seems to be from 2009. Has there been a follow up to this find?
No, unable to locate any progress. There was sort of a status report on Maritime Archaeology in 'The Hindu' during Nov 2017. [1] It talked to both stakeholders.

One is UAW (Underwater Archaeology Wing) ASI (Archaeological Survey of India) which was given as additional charge to Mr Kishore Raghubans.

Second is the Underwater Archaeology Dept of NIO (National Institute of Oceanography). It is three people strong, one of them being Mr AS Gaur. They have been busy exploring two shipwrecks near Goa (NIO office is in Goa). They were planning to do something in Rann of Kutch (Nani Khatia site you posted is there) and Mahabalipuram (Tamil Nadu) where some structures were seen when sea water receded due to Tsunami


[1] Never too deep to dive
 
Jan 2017
3,357
Sydney
since we are on Aryan mythology , I just came across a reference to Uchchaihshravas ( I'm riding it :p)
a many faced horse with superb characteristics ,
it is fair to presume the Aryans were cavalry and would have some story about legendary horses
 
May 2013
1,600
The abode of the lord of the north
Dear @Aatreya

You are correct that the area occupied by the Harappan civilization and that occupied by Rig Vedic people is exactly the same. Almost everyone has to agree with this, and I also.
I think RigVedic geography is more concise than Harappan. Harappan is widely spread reaching as far as Gujarat. Gujarat certainly isn't among the concentrated areas of the Vedas..





I think it is more Identifiable with late Harappan cultures such as cemetry H if we go by just geography


On the east, OCP culture is developing into a crucial candidate, with their warlike culture established. We live in interesting times! We will be able to reach a good-enough conclusion in coming years if we're lucky.
 
Oct 2015
778
India
@Ajathashatru

Yes, you are right, they are not 100% overlapping.

Harappan civilization covered Gujarat but Rig Vedic did not.

On the other hand, Rig Vedic Civilization was better connected with Kashmir, Afghanistan, and perhaps a little beyond (Trstama, Susartu, Anitabha, Rasa Rivers).

Personally, my hypothesis as of now is that archaeologist's "Late Harappan" coincides with Rig Vedic and to an extent Later Vedic. I will try to put dates:

Probable Indian chronology

  • Archaeological sources
    • Merhgarh (8000-3500 BCE)
    • Pre-Harappan (3500-2600 BCE)
    • Mature Harappan (2600-1900 BCE)
    • Several cultures (1900-320 BCE)
  • Literary sources
    • Rig Vedic people outside India (3100-1900)
    • Rig Vedic people in India (1900-1000 BCE)
    • Later Vedic people in India (1000-320 BCE)
 
Last edited:
Dec 2014
3,349
USA
@Ajathashatru

Yes, you are right, they are not 100% overlapping.

Harappan civilization covered Gujarat but Rig Vedic did not.

On the other hand, Rig Vedic Civilization was better connected with Kashmir, Afghanistan, and perhaps a little beyond (Trstama, Susartu, Anitabha, Rasa Rivers).

Personally, my hypothesis as of now is that archaeologist's "Late Harappan" coincides with Rig Vedic and to an extent Later Vedic. I will try to put dates:

Probable Indian chronology

  • Archaeological sources
    • Merhgarh (8000-3500 BCE)
    • Pre-Harappan (3500-2600 BCE)
    • Mature Harappan (2600-1900 BCE)
    • Several cultures (1900-320 BCE)
  • Literary sources
    • Rig Vedic people outside India (3100-1900)
    • Rig Vedic people in India (1900-1000 BCE)
    • Later Vedic people in India (1000-320 BCE)
Rig Vedic people outside India? Funny!