Archaeology Updates (India)

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,569
USA
So you think Iravatham Mahadevan is a Dravidian nationalist? (Tamil Brahmin)
So you think Asko Parpola is a Dravidian nationalist? (Finnish Sanskrit and Tamil scholar)
So you think Painted Grey Ware is evidence for Harappan culture, although they used Black and red ware?
So you think Black and red ware in South India is not material evidence?
So you think bricks and drainage system in Keezhadi is not material evidence?
So you think Indus script in Keezhadi is not material evidence?

And since when is a Rosetta stone required to decipher a script? A Rosetta stone helps, but in our case it was not required.

Maybe an eminent "Vedic scientist" converted all Harappans to use Painted Grey Ware while a "Vedic doctor" transformed the Indian expatriates in Europe to have fair and lovely skin by plastic surgery.. :crying:
Just in case you did not know, Indus script remains undeciohered as of now. It has been reasonably established that there is continuity of peoples and culture in the Haryana region since the pre-Harappan times to the modern times. That should not be a surprise.

What Mahadevan and Parpola were/are means nothing to deciphering the Indus script. They are/were not successful in doing that.
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,856
India
Aren't Austro-Asiatic speakers newest migrants in the sub-continent?
Witzel believes few seers' and kings' name in Vedas are of Dravidian origin(without any proof). It's all make-believe world.
Austro-Asiatic languages are confined to Eastern part of India and South East Asia.
 
Sep 2015
440
Sri Lanka
METALLURGICAL KNOWLEDGE OF ANCIENT VEDIC TAMIHZS;)
Indian artisans and craftsmen have long been masters at extracting and shaping Metals and Alloys, as proven by archaeological finds from the 2nd–3rd millennia B.C. For example, two well-known artifacts, castings of the dancing girl of Mohenjo Daro and the Bronze Mother Goddess of Adichanallur, Tamilnadu [ ??circa 1500BC ] depict a high degree of metallurgical knowledge. Those castings were formed by the "Lost Wax Casting" process , This age-old casting process is still being practiced, without any major modifications used by the Indian artisans of Swamimalai, Tamilnadu, and Kerala, South India in shaping copper-bronze base alloys into icons and utensils, bells, and lamps.
Gonds may have migrated from IVC
The same technique (called dokra) that is still employed by the Gond tribal metal smiths of the Bastar region of Chhattisgarh, and some of the tribal groups in the states of Jharkhand, Orissa, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Kerala.
What really struck us as amazing is that, even stylistically, the dokra figurines of Bastar are strikingly similar to their Mohenjo-Daro counterparts. A particular Dokra figurine (shown below) has many of the attributes of the "Dancing girl "figurine of Mohenjo-Daro. Both the girls have slightly upturned faces with their eyes shut. They stand completely nude, with slightly bent legs, wearing necklaces and bangles. One hand rests on the waist, while with the other hand they are holding something!.
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“On the goddess Kotamma temple woollen market way there is a rocky roof shelter for shepherds and sheep to stay at night up to morning.”

This innocuous sounding statement could actually be a revolutionary find linking the Adivasi Gond tribe to the Indus Valley civilisation, which flourished between 2500 B.C. and 1750 BC.The sentence emerged after a set of 19 pictographs of Indus Sripts from a cave in Hampi were deciphered using Root morphemes of Gondi Language, considered by many eminent Linguists as a Proto -Dravidian language. Eleven of the Hampi pictographs resemble those of the civilisation, according to Dr. K.M. Metry, Head and Dean, Social Sciences, Kannada University, Hampi; Dr. Motiravan Kangali, a Linguist and expert in Gondi language and culture from Nagpur, Maharashtra; and his associate Prakash Salame, also an expert in Gondi. Meanwhile, we will continue with our work applying it to other paintings in the Hampi area to establish a "Proto Dravidian---Harappan link,” the Professor said.
 
Last edited:
Oct 2018
13
India
Just in case you did not know, Indus script remains undeciohered as of now. It has been reasonably established that there is continuity of peoples and culture in the Haryana region since the pre-Harappan times to the modern times. That should not be a surprise.

What Mahadevan and Parpola were/are means nothing to deciphering the Indus script. They are/were not successful in doing that.
What has been really demonstrated is, that both BRW (Harappa) and PGW have been found together in some places from 1200 BCE on, which proves, that the cultures lived side by side for some time. At some point PGW culture overtook all BRW occurences and later developed into NBPW (Northern Black Polished Ware) culture, while the Peninsula India was totally BRW. BRW -> BRW is scientific evidence for continuity. BRW -> PGW is not continuity, it's an alteration of culture. So, why did South remain BRW and North switch to PGW, exactly at the time when the Aryans arrived in India? Living in denial doesn't help your case. All evidences and indicators put together, everything makes sense only when we accept that the Dravidians were the original Indians/Hindus and the Sanskrit/Aryans came from outside and mingled with some Dravidians in the North. And that's exactly what Mahadevan and Parpola did in their works. They interpreted "Vedic texts" as translations from Dravidian originals and succeeded in deciphering the Indus script through Rebus. Dravidians need to thank the Brahmins for the preservation of original Dravidian culture in the Sanskrit languages.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,856
India
What has been really demonstrated is, that both BRW (Harappa) and PGW have been found together in some places from 1200 BCE on, which proves, that the cultures lived side by side for some time. At some point PGW culture overtook all BRW occurences and later developed into NBPW (Northern Black Polished Ware) culture, while the Peninsula India was totally BRW. BRW -> BRW is scientific evidence for continuity. BRW -> PGW is not continuity, it's an alteration of culture. So, why did South remain BRW and North switch to PGW, exactly at the time when the Aryans arrived in India? Living in denial doesn't help your case. All evidences and indicators put together, everything makes sense only when we accept that the Dravidians were the original Indians/Hindus and the Sanskrit/Aryans came from outside and mingled with some Dravidians in the North. And that's exactly what Mahadevan and Parpola did in their works. They interpreted "Vedic texts" as translations from Dravidian originals and succeeded in deciphering the Indus script through Rebus. Dravidians need to thank the Brahmins for the preservation of original Dravidian culture in the Sanskrit languages.
how can a pottery culture could explain about the race and language of the people. The reality is the Dravidian speaking people are the original inhabitants of South of India, not whole of India. Secondly, culture and language are not the same thing. People in North/Central Karnataka show far more facial cultural and food similarity to Maharashtra than to Telangana or Tamil Nadu.
 
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May 2013
1,724
The abode of the lord of the north
So you think Iravatham Mahadevan is a Dravidian nationalist? (Tamil Brahmin)
So you think Asko Parpola is a Dravidian nationalist? (Finnish Sanskrit and Tamil scholar)
So you think Painted Grey Ware is evidence for Harappan culture, although they used Black and red ware?
So you think Black and red ware in South India is not material evidence?
So you think bricks and drainage system in Keezhadi is not material evidence?
So you think Indus script in Keezhadi is not material evidence?

And since when is a Rosetta stone required to decipher a script? A Rosetta stone helps, but in our case it was not required.

Maybe an eminent "Vedic scientist" converted all Harappans to use Painted Grey Ware while a "Vedic doctor" transformed the Indian expatriates in Europe to have fair and lovely skin by plastic surgery.. :crying:
Iravatham Mahadevan himself had said that Tamil Brahmi was just a regional variant of northern brahmi. And your claims on indus connections is superficial. Similar motifs and symbols have also been found multiple times in the north, throughout different cultures. NBPW, the proper urban culture, that predates keezhadi by many centuries (Earliest samples of NBPW has been safely dated back to 1200 BCE) have also been found to have linked with such motifs. Keezhadi is a great find, no doubt. But it just doesn't change any preconcieved notions, except what it directly implies; Urbanization started in tamil lands back in 600 BCE. Yes, nothing but that.
 
Sep 2015
440
Sri Lanka
ADICHANALLUR--- A PRE-HISTORIC METAL AND MINING INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX BEFORE USED AS A BURIAL SITE :cool:
The Geo-archaeological survey at Adichanallur and Krishnapuram was carried out in the year 2004. The resultant study revealed that the so called Pre-Historic Burial site was one of the longest Open Cast Mines of Ancient times. The mined materials contained Copper, Gold and Iron at Adichanallur and only Iron at Krishnapuram. The collected samples of Ore, Slag and some of the Copper and Iron Artefacts from the exposed Burials were analysed for their elemental composition. The study revealed that the Technology of Melting, Casting and Metal working was prevalent in that period at Adichanallur.
INTRODUCTION
At the request of T. Satyamurthi, then Superintendent Archaeologist, Chennai Circle of ASI,requested the scientists from the National Institute of Ocean Technology to, carry out a Geo-Archaeological survey at Adichanallur and around .While carrying out the investigations in that area, the scientists chanced to find similar ancient Open Cast Mining site at Krishnapuram. The ancient mining site at Krishnapuram is located 15 km from Tirunelveli The village Krishnapuram was mentioned by Alexander Rea as one of the Burial sites along the banks of the river Tamraparani.
BACKGROUND HISTORY
The site Adichanallur situated on the southern bank of the River Tamraparani. The credit for the discovery of this Burial site, as early as in the year 1876, goes to Andrew Jagor of Germany. At that point of time, he unearthed number of Human Bones, Iron Artefacts, Burial Urns, and Copper objects. The Adichanallur Burial site received further attention in the year 1899 when Alexander Rea of ASI undertook an excavation . Alexander Rea’s excavation brought to light the largest number of artefacts unearthed from a Burial Site that includes Iron Swords, Javelins, Trident, Spear, Dagger, Spades, Lamp Hangers and Tripods, made out of Copper and Gold !!.
After a gap of hundred years, the ASI, Chennai Circle, under the direction of T.Satyamurthi, carried out excavations for two seasons (2004 / 2005).The Geo-Archaeological study indicated that the famous Burial site at Adichanallur and Krishnapuram were Primarily "Industrial Mining Centres" where the Ancient Metallurgists mined Copper, Iron and Gold in the former and only Iron in the later. The usage of Mined Pits in these centres became a Burial Site was only an after thought and the people utilised the 6 to 3 m deep shallow Mined Pits to bury their dead. After all Aditchanallur was not a "Ghost City" as many were made to believe but primarily a "Metal and Mining Industrial site" --- Only place where implements /objects with Copper mixed Arsernic [to make it not brittle] were made other than in Indus Valley Civilisation!!
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,856
India
And 'Agastya' is a Vedic seer. Both him and his wife Lopamudra have composed a few hymns.
There is another local mythology about Agastya Rishi(Tamil: Agastyar ) migrated to Tamil country after Dwarka submerged in sea, then he brought Cauvery river to earth.
 
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Apr 2019
410
India
There is another local mythology about Agastya Rishi(Tamil: Agastyar ) migrated to Tamil country after Dwarka submerged in sea, then he brought Cauvery river to earth.
Yes I also know this story. Isn't it intresting both Tamil and Vedic myths allude to migrations from Indus valley region. In Vedic myth(if we should call it so) the tribe of Bharata moved from Indus valley to Gangetic plane and in Tamil myth Agastya moved from Dwaraka(a late Indus valley site) to south.
Vedas mention so many tribes some of whom probably spoke different languages.