Are all sexual taboos just a matter of ickyness?

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Closed
Jun 2010
3,301
Colorado Springs (PA at heart)
#31
Incest doesn't necessarily include rape. Two adult siblings could engage in a consensual sexual relationship. It would not be rape, but still incest.

I would think any laws making incest illegal would be based around the potential harm it could cause to any children born of that union, rather than cases of rapes committed by family members, since rape is already covered by laws making sexual assaults illegal.
But the moment it's "okay" for siblings to have sex at all, even as consenting adults, is the moment siblings become potential lovers as soon as they hit puberty, long before consent is fully possible or understood at their age. Do you have siblings? Imagine growing up, living with them, and knowing someday they could be your lover. That opens the door to sexual relations happening long before the age of consent, and would greatly blur the lines of consent and abuse, not to mention the psychological implications of living with and growing up with that person when home should be a place of safety and refuge from things like that. As someone who grew up with a manipulative, psychologically abusive older brother who I also happen to know was sexually attracted to me, I am horrified by the idea of what he might have done to me if incest was made legal and considered ethical, even if only between adults. I have no doubt that my brother was only held back from acting on his desires by the knowledge that it's illegal and unethical - if it hadn't been, he may have very well thought "What's a few more years? Age is only a number" and acted on it, and then I would have been a victim of sexual abuse as a young teenager, forced to live with my abuser. Well, he was already my abuser in a psychological way, but this would have been infinitely worse. Because that's the other point - even if he waited until I was of the age of consent, the fact that he'd been psychologically abusing me my whole life, taking advantage of the fact that we lived together and are closely related, means he could have easily groomed me to give false consent once I reached the age of consent, making it perfectly legal by law, but in reality I would have been trapped in a sexually abusive relationship that only happened because he's my brother and was given the opportunity to take advantage of that. Making incest legal even only between adults would only invite abuse and psychological harm and I fully believe that incest wouldn't happen between psychologically healthy people even if it were legal - so by making it legal, you'd only be making it easier to abusers to take advantage of their victims.
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,243
US
#33
But the moment it's "okay" for siblings to have sex at all, even as consenting adults, is the moment siblings become potential lovers as soon as they hit puberty, long before consent is fully possible or understood at their age. Do you have siblings? Imagine growing up, living with them, and knowing someday they could be your lover. That opens the door to sexual relations happening long before the age of consent, and would greatly blur the lines of consent and abuse, not to mention the psychological implications of living with and growing up with that person when home should be a place of safety and refuge from things like that. As someone who grew up with a manipulative, psychologically abusive older brother who I also happen to know was sexually attracted to me, I am horrified by the idea of what he might have done to me if incest was made legal and considered ethical, even if only between adults. I have no doubt that my brother was only held back from acting on his desires by the knowledge that it's illegal and unethical - if it hadn't been, he may have very well thought "What's a few more years? Age is only a number" and acted on it, and then I would have been a victim of sexual abuse as a young teenager, forced to live with my abuser. Well, he was already my abuser in a psychological way, but this would have been infinitely worse. Because that's the other point - even if he waited until I was of the age of consent, the fact that he'd been psychologically abusing me my whole life, taking advantage of the fact that we lived together and are closely related, means he could have easily groomed me to give false consent once I reached the age of consent, making it perfectly legal by law, but in reality I would have been trapped in a sexually abusive relationship that only happened because he's my brother and was given the opportunity to take advantage of that. Making incest legal even only between adults would only invite abuse and psychological harm and I fully believe that incest wouldn't happen between psychologically healthy people even if it were legal - so by making it legal, you'd only be making it easier to abusers to take advantage of their victims.
Thank you for sharing and explaining the detrimental nature when such relationships are exploited.
 
Likes: History Chick

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
8,832
The People's Republik of Kalifornia.
#35
But the moment it's "okay" for siblings to have sex at all, even as consenting adults, is the moment siblings become potential lovers as soon as they hit puberty, long before consent is fully possible or understood at their age. Do you have siblings? Imagine growing up, living with them, and knowing someday they could be your lover. That opens the door to sexual relations happening long before the age of consent, and would greatly blur the lines of consent and abuse, not to mention the psychological implications of living with and growing up with that person when home should be a place of safety and refuge from things like that. As someone who grew up with a manipulative, psychologically abusive older brother who I also happen to know was sexually attracted to me, I am horrified by the idea of what he might have done to me if incest was made legal and considered ethical, even if only between adults. I have no doubt that my brother was only held back from acting on his desires by the knowledge that it's illegal and unethical - if it hadn't been, he may have very well thought "What's a few more years? Age is only a number" and acted on it, and then I would have been a victim of sexual abuse as a young teenager, forced to live with my abuser. Well, he was already my abuser in a psychological way, but this would have been infinitely worse. Because that's the other point - even if he waited until I was of the age of consent, the fact that he'd been psychologically abusing me my whole life, taking advantage of the fact that we lived together and are closely related, means he could have easily groomed me to give false consent once I reached the age of consent, making it perfectly legal by law, but in reality I would have been trapped in a sexually abusive relationship that only happened because he's my brother and was given the opportunity to take advantage of that. Making incest legal even only between adults would only invite abuse and psychological harm and I fully believe that incest wouldn't happen between psychologically healthy people even if it were legal - so by making it legal, you'd only be making it easier to abusers to take advantage of their victims.
I've heard this argument before and I think it doesn't really hold. I see a lot of strawmen here. Who said anything about incest being ethical? There are lots of behaviors we consider unethical that aren't illegal. And being that you don't think incest should be legal, what then should be the punishment for consenting adults engaging in an incestuous relationship?
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,243
US
#36
I've heard this argument before and I think it doesn't really hold. I see a lot of strawmen here. Who said anything about incest being ethical? There are lots of behaviors we consider unethical that aren't illegal. And being that you don't think incest should be legal, what then should be the punishment for consenting adults engaging in an incestuous relationship?
The OP was about the "ickyness" of such acts, or in more technical terms, the societal view of such things, mores and values. There is a reason society has continually found such behavior as unacceptable. There are many generally unacceptable behaviors that aren't illegal. That is a discussion for another thread.:)
 

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
8,832
The People's Republik of Kalifornia.
#37
The OP was about the "ickyness" of such acts, or in more technical terms, the societal view of such things, mores and values. There is a reason society has continually found such behavior as unacceptable. There are many generally unacceptable behaviors that aren't illegal. That is a discussion for another thread.:)
I thought History Chick was arguing that incest be made illegal, am I missing something?
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,243
US
#38
I thought History Chick was arguing that incest be made illegal, am I missing something?
I don't know. I can't speak for her. Incest among minors should be illegal. Among two consenting adults? In today's world, that is unlikely to happen. Should is be? It's wrong. Should people be punished if both are truly consenting? This is where the psychological quandary enters. Anybody who has ever had siblings knows that there is a pecking order, tacit perhaps, but there. So, it is difficult to ascertain or assert consent is authentic. If two adults are consenting to have sex with each other as siblings, their own conscience (yes, that still exists, even in modern times) should be their judge and jury. If not, most of society should be. Call me judgemental, but society can rejects ideas and acts, without placing a legal punishment upon it. I know a libertarian would argue otherwise, but as you can see, I am not a libertarian, although I do value freedom of expression. But there has to be limits. Otherwise, if I drive down the road and see my neighbor fornicating in the knot hole of a tree should I wave and act as if everything is ok? People do judge each other all the time, right or wrong.
 
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