Are Anatolian beyliks really Turkic?

Status
Closed
Feb 2014
91
...
#1
i know the thread stupid :D
i cant see any mongoloid in them

from Eastern Anatolians(i think they are native to eastern Anatolia)-Seljuq period
Artuqid beylik
look their eyes big :D





Danishmend>>big nose , asians cant have big nose



Turks=Anatolian. Torko-mongol fachist want to stole our Anatolian history and they also hated our Anatolian history.

Macedonians classified a turk in ottoman empire because they are muslim.
 
May 2014
84
East
#3
This thread is not stupid, it is simply garbage. Anatolian city states (beylik) were just simply Turk. It is funny to see trolls with broken English trying to re-write history. Turkic is not just a language, but also an ethnic group. Language exists because of the ethnicity. It is simple logic. The origin of Anatolian Turks, Azerbaijan Turks and Turks of Turkmenistan is Oghuz. Oghuz Turks were never predominantly asiatic at first place. They were a hybrid of asiatic and caucasian.

The list of city states, established after the Battle of Manzikert.

The Beylik of Izmir, established by Caka Bey. He was from Cavuldur branch of Oghuz Turks.

The Beylik of Dilmacogullari, a Turk city state that ruled in Eastern Anatolia's Erzen and Bitlis regions between 1085-1192.

Danismend, a Turkmen city state that ruled in Sivas, Malatya, Kayseri, Tokat, Amasya regions between 1071-1178. It was founded by Danismend Ahmet Gazi.

The Beylik of Saltuklu, a Turk city state that ruled in Erzurum region between 1092-1202. It was founded by Emir Saltuk.

Mengucek, a Turk city state that ruled from the end of 11th century and until the end of 13th century in Erzincan, Kemah and Divrigi regions. It was founded by Mengucek Gazi.

Ahlatshah, a Turk city state that was established in the beginning of 12th century in Ahlat, the western shore of the Lake Van. It was founded by Sokmen el-Kutbi in 1100.

Cobanogullari, it was founded by Husameddin Coban, a Seljuk grand seigneur, in Kastamonu region. He was from the Kayi branch of Oghuz Turks.

The Beylik of Artuklu, an Oghuz Turkmen city state that ruled in Diyarbakir and Mardin, Hasankeyf and Harput regions between 1101-1409

The Beylik of Inancogullari, Inancogullari, from Germiyanoglu dynasty. It ruled in Denizli region.
 
Apr 2014
825
Matrix
#4
i know the thread stupid :D
i cant see any mongoloid in them

from Eastern Anatolians(i think they are native to eastern Anatolia)-Seljuq period
Artuqid beylik
look their eyes big :D





Danishmend>>big nose , asians cant have big nose



Turks=Anatolian. Torko-mongol fachist want to stole our Anatolian history and they also hated our Anatolian history.

Macedonians classified a turk in ottoman empire because they are muslim.
You are confusing yourself the first coin is from Cabinet des Médailles in Bibliothèque nationale de France.
The guy with the so-called wide eyes is Fakhr al-Din Qara Arsalan
 
Jan 2012
793
#5
.........
Are Anatolian beyliks really Turkic?
.........................

In an overall view, in the form of the soverignity are Turkish.
So the refer to all of them, including the Ottoman, but they were dynasty Turkish soverignity(while some times claim roman/'byzantine' origin of descent).

In the form of population we have the refer of William of Rubruck(1210 - 1270) that to midle 13th century who has passed to turkish Anatolia and named Sevastia(Sivas) Kaisaria(Kayseri), Ikonion(Konya) , he refer that ... not one man out of ten (among them) is a muslim ; nearly all are Armenians and Greeks....., and To the latin 'History of Romania/Istoria di Romania' in 14th century of Marino Sanudo Torsello, refering that in his days [about 1338/1369] : ....In Asia Minor ...... the most of it [=Asia Minor/Anatolia], is subservient to Turks, but the most people follow the GREEK [=greek orthodox] and rituals and are mostly Greeks. Even to [the today calling] Armenia, which in the old days was called Cilicia [=he reffers to Armenia of Cilicia] is inhabited by Greeks. In Mesopotamia [=north east Anatolia] there are large number of Greeks and there were many more at the time of the crusade era of Peter the Hermit [=end of 11th century]..........
(Westerners refer the Romei/Rum as Greeks to their texts)> so in the form of population is not at the muslims = [Turks] the majority, at those years. We have a description of the major population in Anatolia's first half of 14th century, and the subservient to Turks+= Asserting sovereignty of power and not of population.
As also even latin writers like Marino Sanudo who use the term Turc, Turkia, give this description between authority power and population.

In the form of language, we know that first Ottomans understood Greek but to the next century, ie 15th century most of christians of asia minore/anatolia, spoken mainly Turkish.
So there have been a serious procces of turcification, and also at the end of 14th century from Demetrios Kydones' (1324 - 1398) to his Symbouleutikoi ("Exhortations") works, refer ' . . . They [muslim Turks] took us territories had from the Hellespont up to east to the mountains of Armenia. They [muslim Turks] raped the souls of the inhabitants, forcing them to deny God and accept their own [ie Islamic] unholy mysteries. Oppressed the christians souls, oh misery, with rampant rape . . . ', so to the second half of 14th century refer a great islamization proccess, that have started earlier.
It is at 1437 that refferd in official written sources that the christian to many places of Asia Minor/Anatolia dressed and spoken Turkish and the priest also use turkish language and only the sacred Hours was in Greek.
Gian Maria Angiolello had observed that the most of the Greek christians of Meram (near Ikonio/Konia) with the except few of, spoken turkish and the religion liturgical books are written in Turkish and Arabic.
Even after the conquest of Constantinople at 1453, in 1456 greek christian in western anatolia send letter to the knights of Rhodes for helping and transport them, because Turks grab their children and made them Muslims [janissaries].
The presence of christians known from some significant areas as in anatolia some areas that taken the childrent for been janissaries are Trapezus (Trebizond), Maras, Prusa (Brusa), Leyki, Nikea (Iznik), Kaisaria (Kaiseri), Eydokias (Tokat), Mixalits, Egridir, Gemlik, Kotzaili, Bolu, Kastamoni (Kastamona), Efhaita (Tsorum), Sampsus, Sinope, Amasia, Melitini (Malatya), Karahisar, Arapkir, Ngemisezec, Ngizri, Kemah, Paipert (Paipurt), Nigde, Beysehir, Karaman, Zulkandriwie, Bilecik, Batum, Sevastia(Sis), Kiutahia, Manias.

In art of Anatolian beyliks there many influences from Persia, Arabic, Roman/Byzantine civilization.

That we call Byzantine art has developed at a significant part to Constantinople and Asia minore / Anatolia.
While islam is an Arab code, christian orthodox christianity is a relegion which theology developed at a significant part from Asia minore /Anatolians fathers like [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_of_Nazianzus]Gregory of Nazianzus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] , [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_of_Caesarea]Basil of Caesarea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] and [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_of_Nyssa]Gregory of Nyssa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] , so we have a relegion (code) that born inside the Roman empire and developed also from Anatolians fathers.
Many of islamized locals of Anatolian beyliks and later, participated to specific Christian feasts.
For more about please read "The Decline of Medieval Hellenism in Asia Minor and the Process of Islamization from the Eleventh through the Fifteenth Century" by Speros Vryonis is a great source.[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Hellenism-Islamization-Eleventh-Fifteenth/dp/1597404764"]The Decline of Medieval Hellenism in Asia Minor and the Process of Islamization from the Eleventh through the Fifteenth Century: Speros Jr. Vryonis: 9781597404761: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gJSeEN%2BuL.@@AMEPARAM@@41gJSeEN%2BuL[/ame] that contains original sources refer to the turcification via islamiozation of medieval era of AsiaMinor/Anatolia's people .> there is a part for the Turkish principalities coins there too, comparing with some 'byzantine' Roman/Rum prototypes. So when we refer something 'byzantine' at art , language, civilization at a great value this developed to AsiaMinore/Anatolia as this is the major Roman/Rum area that the local civilisation has been developed, grow, and keep alive specially from it's christian members, while all islamized locals and christians are natives.

=====================================
 
Last edited:
May 2014
84
East
#6
In an overall view, in the form of the soverignity are Turkish.
So the refer to all of them, including the Ottoman, but they were dynasty Turkish soverignity(while some times claim roman/'byzantine' origin of descent).

In the form of population we have the refer of William of Rubruck(1210 - 1270) that to midle 13th century who has passed to turkish Anatolia and named Sevastia(Sivas) Kaisaria(Kayseri), Ikonion(Konya) , he refer that ... not one man out of ten (among them) is a muslim ; nearly all are Armenians and Greeks....., and To the latin 'History of Romania/Istoria di Romania' in 14th century of Marino Sanudo Torsello, refering that in his days [about 1338/1369] : ....In Asia Minor ...... the most of it [=Asia Minor/Anatolia], is subservient to Turks, but the most people follow the GREEK [=greek orthodox] and rituals and are mostly Greeks. Even to [the today calling] Armenia, which in the old days was called Cilicia [=he reffers to Armenia of Cilicia] is inhabited by Greeks. In Mesopotamia [=north east Anatolia] there are large number of Greeks and there were many more at the time of the crusade era of Peter the Hermit [=end of 11th century]..........
(Westerners refer the Romei/Rum as Greeks to their texts)> so in the form of population is not at the muslims = [Turks] the majority, at those years. We have a description of the major population in Anatolia's first half of 14th century, and the subservient to Turks+= Asserting sovereignty of power and not of population.
As also even latin writers like Marino Sanudo who use the term Turc, Turkia, give this description between authority power and population.

In the form of language, we know that first Ottomans understood Greek but to the next century, ie 15th century most of christians of asia minore/anatolia, spoken mainly Turkish.
So there have been a serious procces of turcification, and also at the end of 14th century from Demetrios Kydones' (1324 - 1398) to his Symbouleutikoi ("Exhortations") works, refer ' . . . They [muslim Turks] took us territories had from the Hellespont up to east to the mountains of Armenia. They [muslim Turks] raped the souls of the inhabitants, forcing them to deny God and accept their own [ie Islamic] unholy mysteries. Oppressed the christians souls, oh misery, with rampant rape . . . ', so to the second half of 14th century refer a great islamization proccess, that have started earlier.
It is at 1437 that refferd in official written sources that the christian to many places of Asia Minor/Anatolia dressed and spoken Turkish and the priest also use turkish language and only the sacred Hours was in Greek.
Gian Maria Angiolello had observed that the most of the Greek christians of Meram (near Ikonio/Konia) with the except few of, spoken turkish and the religion liturgical books are written in Turkish and Arabic.
Even after the conquest of Constantinople at 1453, in 1456 greek christian in western anatolia send letter to the knights of Rhodes for helping and transport them, because Turks grab their children and made them Muslims [janissaries].
The presence of christians known from some significant areas as in anatolia some areas that taken the childrent for been janissaries are Trapezus (Trebizond), Maras, Prusa (Brusa), Leyki, Nikea (Iznik), Kaisaria (Kaiseri), Eydokias (Tokat), Mixalits, Egridir, Gemlik, Kotzaili, Bolu, Kastamoni (Kastamona), Efhaita (Tsorum), Sampsus, Sinope, Amasia, Melitini (Malatya), Karahisar, Arapkir, Ngemisezec, Ngizri, Kemah, Paipert (Paipurt), Nigde, Beysehir, Karaman, Zulkandriwie, Bilecik, Batum, Sevastia(Sis), Kiutahia, Manias.

In art of Anatolian beyliks there many influences from Persia, Arabic, Roman/Byzantine civilization.

That we call Byzantine art has developed at a significant part to Constantinople and Asia minore / Anatolia.
While islam is an Arab code, christian orthodox christianity is a relegion which theology developed at a significant part from Asia minore /Anatolians fathers like Gregory of Nazianzus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , Basil of Caesarea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Gregory of Nyssa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , so we have a relegion (code) that born inside the Roman empire and developed also from Anatolians fathers.
Many of islamized locals of Anatolian beyliks and later, participated to specific Christian feasts.
For more about please read "The Decline of Medieval Hellenism in Asia Minor and the Process of Islamization from the Eleventh through the Fifteenth Century" by Speros Vryonis is a great source.The Decline of Medieval Hellenism in Asia Minor and the Process of Islamization from the Eleventh Through the Fifteenth Century: Speros, Jr. Vryonis: 9780520057531: Amazon.com: Books that contains original sources refer to the turcification via islamiozation of medieval era of AsiaMinor/Anatolia's people .> there is a part for the Turkish principalities coins there too, comparing with some 'byzantine' Roman/Rum prototypes. So when we refer something 'byzantine' at art , language, civilization at a great value this developed to AsiaMinore/Anatolia as this is the major Roman/Rum area that the local civilisation has been developed, grow, and keep alive specially from it's christian members, while all islamized locals and christians are natives.

=====================================
Nice garbage up there. I made an attempt to read but didnt even bother after I came across with the words Islamization, Janissaries, rape and Turkification. It is really entertaining to see how trolls desperately trying to re-write and dissort history with such fairy tales and horror stories.
 
Last edited:
Jan 2012
793
#7
Nice garbage up there. I made an attempt to read but didnt even bother after I came across with the words Islamization, Janissaries, rape and Turkification. It is really entertaining to see how trolls desperately trying to re-write and dissort history with such fairy tales and horror stories.
I give you original sources.
The refer is for all together the anatolian principalities, including Ottomans.
Specific Janissaries, refer for the Ottoman one.
The world 'rape' is of the original source, not mine.The process of islamization also described from witness of that period(second half of 14th century), not me.
I give you also modern academic refer books since many can't read original sources.
Take your results.

=========================
 
Last edited:
May 2014
84
East
#8
"During Turk conquest, a large part of Anatolia, especially central, south and west regions gave the impression of a low populated, motionless, in other words, a backwards country. Sasanian-Byzantine, Arab-Byzantine struggle caused the terrible destruction of Cukurova, many other regions and the majority of Anatolian population. Christians started escaping to the islands and Rumelia since they knew that Turkmens enslaved the Christians they captured during the wars very well. On the other hand, there are no records about any kind of mass conversion and Islamization in Anatolia in Turk, Byzantine, Armenian and Arab sources and in the rich Ottoman archive which registered even the smallest incident. There was also not a class of converts in Anatolia like in Muslim Spain." (Faruk Sumer, Oghuz Turks/Oguzlar)

"The historical records we have indicate that some individuals and families accepted Islam, but they provide no information about Christian folk getting assimilated through mass conversion and becoming Muslim. They also provide no sign of mass admixture between Anatolian Turks and Romans/Rums, Armenians." (Zeki Velidi Togan, Umumi Turk Tarihine Giris/The History of Turks, Page 207)

"There were other elements that made the success of Turkmens that expanded into central Anatolia easier. Many people died due to Byzantine-Islam struggle since Abbasid era. Anatolia was neglected because of the inside conflicts in Byzantine. The villagers that were forced to pay high taxes became exhausted and population radically decreased." (Ibrahim Kafesoglu, Selcuklu Tarihi/History of Seljuks, Page 134)

"An era of expansion and settlement began in Anatolia after the victory of Manzikert and there was no army to stand against Turks. The ethnic structure of Anatolia which had been a homeland for many tribes and civilizations through history, had such a dramatic change that this massive migration and settlement movement remained as a secret since it was not properly studied and many times it has been estimated that the local populations were forced for mass conversions or annihilated." (Osman Turan, Selcuklular Tarihi ve Turk Islam Medeniyeti/History of Seljuks and Turk Islam Civilization, Page 281)

"The languages and cultures of the nations that formed the Ottoman Empire were protected so well that in such a short time, a new Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, Arab states were established with all of their uniqueness." (Jean Paul Roux, Turkologist)

"These populations are long haired, good archers, very skilled in carving ram and horse statues from stone. They called their God Khan-Tengri." (Moisey Kagankatvasi, The History of Agvan, Regarding Turk existence in Eastern Anatolia in 7th century)

""These 200.000 Turk Oghuz, Pecheneg soldiers in Roman Emperor Diojen's army switched sides when they came across with their Turkic cognates. This was an important factor for the victory of Manzikert in 1071." (Seljuk Sources)

"Byzantine Emperor Aleksi Kommenos settled Bulgar, Khazar, Avar, Pecheneg, Kuman and Oghuz tribes to Mugla, Manisa, Tarsus, Misis, Antakya, Adana and Kilikia regions."

"Abbasid army had Turk soldiers as majority.One of the major forces while defeating Umayyad in 753 were Turks. This proves Turks were in Iraq even in 753 and before that. Turk population and military force was so dominant that the city of Samarra was established to settle Turk soldiers and their families in. The Turk commanders in Abbasid army were, Ebu Suleym Ferec el Hadim et Turki, Muhammed B. Sul, El Afsin Haydar B Kaus, Ebu's Sac, Mubarek et Turki, Zirek et Turki, Boga el Kebir." (Abbasid Sources)

"In the cities I visited, Turks, Armenians, Greeks and Jews were living in seperate neighbourhoods and the Greek population was not high. Anatolian populations did not represent a unity. Greeks were a small minority living in cities and there was a constant struggle between Greeks and Armenians." (Ibn-i Batuta, Arab Traveller)

"Victory became the shadow of Turk warriors and soldiers." (Hoca Saadeddin Efendi, Ottoman Sheikh ül Islam, Tacü't-Tevarih)

"Turks, the elite nation, beautiful Ummah." (Famous Ottoman Historian Mustafa Künhü'l Ahbar of Gallipoli, 16th Century)

"One Turk is worth the entire world." (Suzi Chelebi)

Ottoman dynasty had conflicts from time to time with the Turkmen followers of Shah Ismail to settle their nomadic Turkmen population but they never had any problem with Turkmens, Turks. It is non-sense to expect them to have either because Ottoman Empire existed because of Turks at first place. They always settled Turkmen tribes to the regions they conquered.

"Solakzade Mehmed Hemdemi described Mehmed the Conquerer's son, Cem, as son of the Turk who conquered Konstantiniyye."

"Mehmed the Conquerer named one of his grandsons after one of the oldest ancestors of Turks, Oghuz Khan. He named the other after the nobel Turk scholar Dede Korkut, Korkut."

"Alevi Turks since 13th century, did not get married with different ethnic groups for 700 years because of their beliefs. Considering the fact that the condition for being an Alevi is to be born to an Alevi family, it can be said that Turks are the least mixed ethnic group in Anatolia. Nusayri with Turkmen origin, did not get married with different ethnic groups for 1100 years."

"You need to write a whole new book to count the Turkmen tribes here." (Evliya Chelebi)

"Italian traveller Marco Polo described Anatolia as Turkomania-Turchomania." (13th Century)

"Diplomats such as Klavio, J. Barbaro described Erzurum and Van regions as Turkomania-Turkmenistan." (Neuste Reisebeschreibung)

"The majority of the Black Sea region's population is Çepni Turk. Çepni is one of the 24 Oghuz tribes and the most crowded one. They are related to Gök-Han branch of Üç-Ok. Oghuz is the branch of Anatolian and Azerbaijan Turks. They are the ancesstors of Turks of Turkmenistan, Iraq, Syrian Turkmen and Gagauz. In Divan-i Lugat-i Turk, the names of 50 Anatolian cities with Çepni population are given. Çepni, took an active role during the conquest of Anatolia in 1071 and later, Black Sea region from Sinop to Trabzon starting from 1277. They defeated the Pontus army which attacked to Sinop in 1277. When Sultan Mehmed took the control of Pontus which was a small fortified state within a 30 km2 area with less than 4500 population, he sent the non-Muslim population to the Balkans."

"When Turks arrived to Anatolia, Anatolia became a Turkmen sea and the subjects of Byzantine became like small islands in the middle of an ocean." (Pahimeres, Byzantine Historian)

"Turks were as crowded as hordes of grasshoppers." (Anna Comnena, Emperor Alexios I Komnenos's Daughter, Alexiad)

"There were 200.000 Turkmen tents only in Antalya region." (Abu'l-Fida, Historian, Geographer)
 
Last edited:
May 2014
84
East
#9
I give you original sources.
The refer is for all together the anatolian principalities, including Ottomans.
Specific Janissaries, refer for the Ottoman one.
The world 'rape' is of the original source, not mine.The process of islamization also described from witness of that period(second half of 14th century), not me.
I give you also modern academic refer books since many can't read original sources.
Take your results.

=========================
Wikipedia is not an original, academic source. It is the propaganda center of Armenians and Greeks.
 
Last edited:
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Closed