Are Brahmins Jews?

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,298
New Delhi, India
#41
येभिः शिवः स्ववानेवयावभिर्दिवःसिषक्ति स्वयशा निकामभिः ll
yebhiḥ śivaḥ svavānevayāvabhirdivaḥsiṣakti svayaśā nikāmabhiḥ ||
With whom, the Eager Ones, going their ordered course, he comes from heaven Self-bright, auspicious, strong to guard.
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XCII. Viśvedevas.

:) That is the only reference to such an important God as Shiva in ten books of RigVeda, 1028 hymns, 10,600 verses, and that too in the sense of 'auspicious', and not as Shiva the God. The God about whom they are talking is an Aryan one, Rudra*.

"This god (Rudra) occupies a subordinate position in the RV, being celebrated in only three entire hymns, in part of another, and in one conjointly with Soma. .. His color is reddish (Babhru, Bhura); his form is dazzling, for he shines like the radiant sun, like gold. He is arrayed with golden ornaments, and wears a glorious necklace (niská). He drives in a car (Chariot). His weapons are often referred to: he holds the thunderbolt in his arm, and discharges his lightning shaft from the sky; but he is usually said to be armed with a bow and arrows, which are strong and swift."
A Vedic Reader (Excerpts)

Do you think that the description matches with Shiva? The conclusion is that Aryans and RigVeda do not mention Shiva who is an indigenous God of Hindus. Ariaca, you have much to learn. :)
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,298
New Delhi, India
#42
Why do you think Shiva is depicted with matted hair? It is because in Rig Veda, Rudra (who is Shiva) is called "Kapardina". Read the texts properly.
Did not the two Gods merge in the fashion of another minor Vedic God, Vishnu, with just 6 hymns to his name, who merged with the indigenous Gods, Rama, Krishna and others? And did not Sarswati merge with the indigenous Hindu Mother Goddess Durga? Your sense of history is upside down. In Hindi, we term it as 'Ulatvasi', in the fashion of Goddess Alakshmi. You would always take the opposite meaning from what the whole world accepts.
 
Feb 2019
62
Ariaca
#43
येभिः शिवः स्ववानेवयावभिर्दिवःसिषक्ति स्वयशा निकामभिः ll
yebhiḥ śivaḥ svavānevayāvabhirdivaḥsiṣakti svayaśā nikāmabhiḥ ||
With whom, the Eager Ones, going their ordered course, he comes from heaven Self-bright, auspicious, strong to guard.
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XCII. Viśvedevas.

:) That is the only reference to such an important God as Shiva in ten books of RigVeda, 1028 hymns, 10,600 verses, and that too in the sense of 'auspicious', and not as Shiva the God. The God about whom they are talking is an Aryan one, Rudra*.

"This god (Rudra) occupies a subordinate position in the RV, being celebrated in only three entire hymns, in part of another, and in one conjointly with Soma. .. His color is reddish (Babhru, Bhura); his form is dazzling, for he shines like the radiant sun, like gold. He is arrayed with golden ornaments, and wears a glorious necklace (niská). He drives in a car (Chariot). His weapons are often referred to: he holds the thunderbolt in his arm, and discharges his lightning shaft from the sky; but he is usually said to be armed with a bow and arrows, which are strong and swift."
A Vedic Reader (Excerpts)

Do you think that the description matches with Shiva? The conclusion is that Aryans and RigVeda do not mention Shiva who is an indigenous God of Hindus. Ariaca, you have much to learn. :)
So I was right, shiva is mentioned in Rigveda.
 
Feb 2019
62
Ariaca
#44
Did not the two Gods merge in the fashion of another minor Vedic God, Vishnu, with just 6 hymns to his name, who merged with the indigenous Gods, Rama, Krishna and others? And did not Sarswati merge with the indigenous Hindu Mother Goddess Durga? Your sense of history is upside down. In Hindi, we term it as 'Ulatvasi', in the fashion of Goddess Alakshmi. You would always take the opposite meaning from what the whole world accepts.
Not sure why youstarted name calling other member here after he refuted your claim being a senior member here I expected better from you.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,298
New Delhi, India
#45
So I was right, Shiva is mentioned in Rigveda.
No. Shiva is not mentioned in RigVeda. There is no hymn dedicated to him or any other indigenous God or Goddess. The word was used in the sense of 'auspicious'. Shiva was known to the indigenous with many other names like Mahadeva. There is a particular Telugu word for Shiva which I do not remember now.After the indigenous picked up Sanskrit, Shiva became his name.

It seems that the indigenous were not against the minor Vedic Gods. Both Vishnu and Rudra were minor Vedic Gods. Their ire was against Indra in particular and yajnas. That is why Shiv's destruction of Daksha's yajna, or the defeat of Indra by Krishna or the branding of Indra as an adulterer after which worship of Indra was banned in India, except when yajna's were conducted.

Movement of IE people and its effects on mythology of countries right from Ireland to India is well-established by mythology, archaeology, history and linguistics. But our chauvinist friends here would not accept it. There is hardly anything Vedic in Hinduism as practiced today. There was fire worship in every household five times a day (Garhpatyagni) which was to be continued from the time of one's marriage till the death of one person in the couple. There were hundreds of kinds of yajnas. Do we do that now except and occasional homa in homes once or twice in a year? The Vedic religion became just small part of Hinduism. It is wrong to say that Hinduism derives from Vedas. It is just a lip service to the merged culture. I am not against that, they are surely a part of us. Hinduism is the religion of the indigenous majority which Aryans accepted with their merger in Indian population. All migrants and invaders did that before the advent of Islam. Greeks, Parthians, Pahalavas, Scythians, Kushanas, Hunas, Tibeto-Burmans and many more, all merged in the hindu society.
 
Last edited:
Feb 2019
62
Ariaca
#46
No. Shiva is not mentioned in RigVeda. There is no hymn dedicated to him or any other indigenous God or Goddess. The word was used in the sense of 'auspicious'. Shiva was known to the indigenous with many other names like Mahadeva. There is a particular Telugu word for Shiva which I do not remember now.After the indigenous picked up Sanskrit, Shiva became his name.

It seems that the indigenous were not against the minor Vedic Gods. Both Vishnu and Rudra were minor Vedic Gods. Their ire was against Indra in particular and yajnas. That is why Shiv's destruction of Daksha's yajna, or the defeat of Indra by Krishna or the branding of Indra as an adulterer after which worship of Indra was banned in India, except when yajna's were conducted.

Movement of IE people and its effects on mythology of countries right from Ireland to India is well-established by mythology, archaeology, history and linguistics. But our chauvinist friends here would not accept it. There is hardly anything Vedic in Hinduism as practiced today. There was fire worship in every household five times a day (Garhpatyagni) which was to be continued from the time of one's marriage till the death of one person in the couple. There were hundreds of kinds of yajnas. Do we do that now except and occasional homa in homes once or twice in a year? The Vedic religion became just small part of Hinduism. It is wrong to say that Hinduism derives from Vedas. It is just a lip service to the merged culture. I am not against that, they are surely a part of us. Hinduism is the religion of the indigenous majority which Aryans accepted with their merger in Indian population. All migrants and invaders did that before the advent of Islam. Greeks, Parthians, Pahalavas, Scythians, Kushanas, Hunas, Tibeto-Burmans and many more, all merged in the hindu society.
I just proved you wrong 16 hours ago.
 

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