are poorly educated people more prone to indoctrination?

Oct 2013
1,312
Monza, Italy
Yet, I can think of many historical examples that would seem to counter this opinion.

I would posit that we are all indoctrinated to some degree.
Exactly, but I think that many historical singular examples do not deny a general rule; and yes, we are all indoctrinated, but in my opinion there are people who are more than others. You can't compare a skinhead who only read Mein Kampf with Umberto Eco, although the latter represented a sort of maintream tendency at University levels.
 
Nov 2018
312
Denmark
It depends, some people evolve critical skills going to school around 16-17 years old, others at 19-20 years old; it's a proof of fact those who aren't scholarized and who hardly get an high school diploma rely mainly on their parent's opinions, can't hold a dialogue, and favour "politicians" who are good in ranting and making impossibile promises.
So you think that it takes a minimum of 12 years of schooling for not being uneducated?
 
Oct 2013
1,312
Monza, Italy
So you think that it takes a minimum of 12 years of schooling for not being uneducated?
Generally talking, yes, at least according with what I experienced. I come from a nation where 1/3 of the people can't read properly a text, 47% of the population are functional illiterate, people holding a degree are at the minimum according to European standards, and more than half of the population is supporting low grade political leaders, if you know what I mean...is it just a coincidence?
 
Nov 2018
312
Denmark
Generally talking, yes, at least according with what I experienced. I come from a nation where 1/3 of the people can't read properly a text, 47% of the population are functional illiterate, people holding a degree are at the minimum according to European standards, and more than half of the population is supporting low grade political leaders, if you know what I mean...is it just a coincidence?
Of course if you cannot read and can only acquire knowledge via the television.

Then your opinion will be a little narrow.

But what is Italy's minimum for children's schooling ?

Low grade politicians and voters are everywhere; we have just had elections in Denmark and those who won were the ones who promised the most in welfare services, but who should pay?
 
Jan 2017
1,276
Durham
I'd have to give this a big yes.

Uneducated people rely on getting all their answers from someone else because they haven't learned to think for themselves.
Very, very few of us think for ourselves. We're the product of thousands of years of thinking by other people. The more 'educated' we are we simply become more adept at passing ourselves off as educated and free thinking. Everything that is posted on here is someone else's work and we're regurgitating it. I'd class myself as a liberal, but I don't mind admitting that the problem with Liberalism is it leads some people into the self-delusion that they think they're better than what they are, and that has had far reaching consequences in that many a revolution that has lopped heads off left, right and centre.
 

Cepheus

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
2,225
Exactly, but I think that many historical singular examples do not deny a general rule; and yes, we are all indoctrinated, but in my opinion there are people who are more than others. You can't compare a skinhead who only read Mein Kampf with Umberto Eco, although the latter represented a sort of maintream tendency at University levels.
From a logical perspective I want to check myself to make sure I am not equating indoctrination with a negative value. At this point, we have not distinguished between positive or negative values in regard to the concept of indoctrination. IOW, some indoctrination may be "good."

Also, the OP, in regard to logic, is dealing with the concept of causality. IOW, sufficient, necessary and contributory.

With the OP in mind, being uneducated seems to be, IMHO, as much of a contributory cause to indoctrination as being "well read" is. Or, rather, I do not have a basis or data to prefer one over the other as a cause for indoctrination.

From an anecdotal POV, experience, common sense, intelligence and social dynamics are all in play (contributory) as well. IOW, indoctrination requires multiple contributory factors. This is fair to say, right ?

So, I cannot determine that being uneducated plays a more pivotal role than being "well read" in regard to indoctrination. Of course, I would further posit, that neither the single attribute of being "well read" nor the single attribute of being uneducated is sufficient or necessary, by themselves, to a state of being indoctrinated.
 

athena

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
5,032
Eugene, Oregon
And some people are so in need to find a reason for their ills that they're willing to believe any garbage that vindicates their beliefs. If anything, this series of posts is a very graphic refutation of the OP.

:lol: Are you intentionally being insulting? Isn't that discouraged in the rules and aren't you a rule enforcer?
 
Oct 2013
1,312
Monza, Italy
Of course if you cannot read and can only acquire knowledge via the television.

Then your opinion will be a little narrow.

But what is Italy's minimum for children's schooling ?

Low grade politicians and voters are everywhere; we have just had elections in Denmark and those who won were the ones who promised the most in welfare services, but who should pay?
I suspect Denmark and Italian culture are so different so that our dialogue can be very constructive but at the same time....difficult because of our different perspectives. Minimum in Italy is 16 years old. But in the end don't you agree that generally talking, more "intellectual" people are less easy to indoctrinate? Ignorant people are sometimes really scary to me....by the way do you have any data about what kind of people elected your new leader over there in Denmark? I'm just aware about some of her ideas on immigration.
 
Likes: athena

athena

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
5,032
Eugene, Oregon
I'd have to give this a big yes.

Uneducated people rely on getting all their answers from someone else because they haven't learned to think for themselves.
Perfect, and people don't just learn to think for themselves. How we process thoughts depends on how we are taught to process thoughts. The US was highly invested in education for independent thinking and this ended in most schools with the passing of the 1958 National Defense Education and education for "group think" and reliance on authority. Eisenhower warned of the danger of becoming too reliant the "experts", but most people do not take his warning seriously and I think most people think the Military Industrial Complex is just a conspiracy thing. But the following increase of government control of education in the US, is progressing the dumbing down. The No Child Left Behind Act has lead to even greater effort to prepare students to pass test and this is completely contrary to teaching them HOW to think.

The Behaviorist Method of education is also used for training dogs. It trains the mind to respond to correct answers without thinking. The "right" answer is just a reflex to stimulus. And you might notice the large number of people who think making insulting statements, which are a reflex to stimulus, are equal to making good arguments. Such as insisting the Military Industrial Complex is just a conspiracy theory is a sure sign of not looking for information. This morning the thread about technological advancement led me to look for information about the defense industry and I am blown away with how easy it is to get information about the importance of the Military Industrial Complex to our economy, and yet some people have a knee jerk response to the words "military industrial complex" and never look for information. This forum gives many examples of the none thinking problem we have.
 

athena

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
5,032
Eugene, Oregon
I do not agree at all with the statement.

Indoctrination implies receiving information.

It also implies that the recipient will be accepting of this information.

To be more precise, we would have to know which group is more likely to be uncritical of the information they receive.

I cannot think of any logical basis that would suggest that poorly educated people are more susceptible to indoctrination than very educated people.
Yet, I can think of many historical examples that would seem to counter this opinion.

I would posit that we are all indoctrinated to some degree.

We have to be mindful of our assumptions.

That is why applying analysis to our thoughts via logic is so important.

What you are both missing is indoctrination is not just about receiving information! It is a matter of what your brain does with the information once it is received. It is not natural to think critically. Critical thinking is a learned skill. People can get degrees in computer technology and never have a class in critical thinking.

Being extremely smart has almost nothing to do with critical thinking, nor wisdom. In fact, being a critical thinker will reduce one's ability to score high on the technological test, because critical thinking involves more thinking than memorizing facts and responding correctly on test with right or wrong answers. Today our young are smart but lack the wisdom to use the technology available to us. There is a difference between using a cell phone and being addicted to it and having no life except the life of social media and games. This addiction is very much about preparing our young for technology but not for life and all the responsibilities that come with being an adult.