Are southern Chinese and Jomon somewhat related?

Status
Closed
Dec 2011
3,492
Mountains and Jungles of Southern China
Found this passage on a Japanese website

Bulletin No.27

Jomon skulls and limb bones closely resemble the Upper Pleistocene Liujiang fossils of Kwangsi, south China, which represent a stock that had barely begun to differentiate along the Mongoloid line (Yamaguchi, 1982). The Ainu, long an enigma in racial history and systematics, are now recognized as a. remnant population descended from the Jomon, which survived in Hokkaido following ancient hunting-fishing lifeways in relative isolation from post-Jomon influences until the end of the last century. Comparisons based on cranial measurements (Howells, 1966; Yamaguchi, 1982; Dodo, 1982) nonmetric cranial traits (Yamaguchi, 1967) and teeth (Turner, 1976; 1979; Turner and Hanihara, 1977; Brace and Nagai, 1982) attest to the affiliation of Ainu with Jomon.
It seems that Jomon and Liujiang were related.
 
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Dec 2011
3,492
Mountains and Jungles of Southern China
Yes, but among all the Upper Pleistocene skulls and limb bones so far discovered in East Asia, Jomon and Liujiang resemble each other the most.

On the other hand, the Upper Cave 101 skull found in northern China seems to be more related to Eskimo or Native American.
 
Dec 2011
3,492
Mountains and Jungles of Southern China
Another passage found in a Japanese website

http://www.kahaku.go.jp/research/department/anthropology/report02/s11.html#

Body Size, Body Shape and Encephalization in a Late Pleistocene Human from Liujiang, South China
Wu Liu (Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology, Chinese Academy of Sciences)
The cranium and postcranial human remains found in Liujiang are the most complete and well preserved late Pleistocene human fossils ever found in south China. The original study put Liujiang into an early type of on-forming Mongoloids. However, many problems on Liujiang human fossils have been in debate. The Liujiang human fossils contain a complete cranium, right os coxae, sacrum, two femur fragments and several vertebras. Because there are no duplicated elements; the joint surfaces of adjacent bones articulate comfortably; and all the fossil bones have similar texture, these fossils are thought to represent the same individual. This unusual discovery makes us to calculate body size, body proportions and relative cranial capacity (encephalization quotient) for that individual rather more reliably. In the present study, based on the measurements of the Liujiang cranium and reconstructed pelvis, we calculated the stature, body breadth (biiliac breadth ), body weight, EQ index, body proportion for the individual. The body size and shape of the individual were further analysed. Our result indicates that the Liujiang individual has body proportions (body height relative to body breadth) typical of warm-adapted populations in the world. His encephalization quotient of 5.602 is bigger than those of other middle and late Pleistocene humans like Upper Cave and Jinniushan, and is closer to those of Minatogawa 2 and modern human populations. The body weight 52.0 kg for Liujiang is also smaller than those of fossil humans living in higher latitude like Jinniushan, Upper Cave and Neanderthals, and closer to those of Minatogawa, KNM-ER3883 and KNM-ER3733 which all lived in warmer climate region. We believe that the body size, body proportions and relative cranial capacity (EQ) of Liujiang individual suggest his resemblance to the term Pleistocene and living humans.
 

Lucius

Forum Staff
Jan 2007
16,363
Nebraska
That makes sense on account of the geography.

One's second-cousins would live closer than his seventh-cousins, in general.
 

Haakbus

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,816
United States
Well, the Ainu language (the Ainu are most likely a remnant of the Jomonic peoples) seems to be related to languages in that region, so I'd say it's quite likely.
 
Jan 2015
59
LA , California
In all likelihood the Ainu spoke a Eurasiatic language, as a branch of Altaic as noted below.

Korean-Japanese-Ainu



Well, the Ainu language (the Ainu are most likely a remnant of the Jomonic peoples) seems to be related to languages in that region, so I'd say it's quite likely.
 
Jan 2015
59
LA , California
Chinese language (Cantonese, Tai Ka Dai, Teochew,Mandarin,Hokkien etc) are not classified as Eurasiatic languages like the Ainu language is.
So no, in terms of language and culture the Ainu were not similar to the Southern Chinese in any sense.
 
Jan 2015
59
LA , California
You're underrating the Jomon as some single entity to fit your nationalistic agenda of "Jomon are Southern Chinese" nonsense.
Yayoi came from Southern China (as indicated by Chinese/Japanese geneticists) and Jomon came from Central Asia or Siberia by way of Korea.

Korea's Jeulmun pottery period (8000–1500 BC)
is preceded by only by
Japans Jomon pottery period (10000-8000 BC)


[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeulmun_pottery_period"]Jeulmun pottery period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


Compare Jomon/Jeulmun potteries they are identical to one another.

Japanese Jomon Pottery

Incipient Jomon rope pottery 10000-8000 BC

Korean Jeulmun Pottery

Korean earthenware vessel Jeulmun period
Amsa-dong, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul"]Seoul[/ame]. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Museum"]British Museum[/ame]



As far as the Ainu go they are mixed with the Australian Abo's and possibly Southern Chinese (Daics, Tai Ka Dais)
But Ainu's base culture (Jomon) is of proto-Siberian Eurasiatic origins without a doubt and so is their language.

Found this passage on a Japanese website

Bulletin No.27



It seems that Jomon and Liujiang were related.
 
Last edited:
Dec 2011
3,492
Mountains and Jungles of Southern China
Chinese language (Cantonese, Tai Ka Dai, Teochew,Mandarin,Hokkien etc) are not classified as Eurasiatic languages like the Ainu language is.
So no, in terms of language and culture the Ainu were not similar to the Southern Chinese in any sense.
But language and culture are fluid concepts that could be easily changed or modified due to outside influences and they do not necessarily correlate with ethnicity. An ethnic group could very well adopt their language and culture from neighboring ethnic groups or from the group that conquered them.

An example would be the Anatolian Turks. They speak the Turkish language and their culture is also Turkish, however in terms of bloodline and ancestry the modern day Anatolian Turks are probably mostly descended from Greeks or other Middle-Eastern peoples. Very few of them actually descended from the original Turks, which were mostly likely Mongoloids.

Ancient skulls and bones are often the only way to determine the relationship between different ethnic groups. The fact that the Minatogawa skull closely resembles the Liujiang skull shows that at least some of the Jomon Japanese peoples derive their ancestry from the ancient southern peoples.

And from my observations I feel that the Japanese do look slightly more southern than koreans and other Northeast Asians.

The existence of a Pan-Eurasiatic language is still not proven. It's just a mere speculation. For now, Ainu remains as an isolate language.
 
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