are war movies the best type of movies?

Sep 2016
929
Georgia
#12
It doesn't hurt that they prance around in fancy bronze armour! Or should, unlike the plastic crap folks were wearing in "Troy", but as has been said before, that's the golden rule....
Funny enough, Iliad is even more competent in military matters than movie filmed in the beginning of 21st century. I found whole scene with Trojans attacking camp of Greeks hilarious in the movie. In Iliad Greeks fortified the camp and Trojans had hard time getting around those fortifications. But in the movie Greeks have none and their camp is out in the open. I also loved how fighting stopped before that, when Hector and Achilles face off. Both sides started watching it and cheering on their guy. It's like they knew what main characters are and when to stop fighting around them. After that, Hector for some reason stops fighting after killing Achilles ( Patroclus in reality ). Than both sides retreat and return to their homes.

Agamemnon came to walls of Troy for some reason in the movie. What he expected ? He had no siege weapons, no preparations for some sort of blockade or siege. Did he have spy inside who would sabotage Trojans and open the gates ? For some reason their whole army just marches to the walls of Troy. Hector also decided to wait for Agamemnon outside of Troy for some reason. Hector is more moronic here, even if there should be duel between Paris and Menelaus you don't need to field your whole army outside the walls.

Both sides only have heavy infantry. No chariots, no slingers and archers are only used to defend some specific spot.

There is no Logistics and you wonder how such huge army is able to feed itself for multiple weeks, while always staying on the beach and not doing anything else. ( besides fighting Trojans 2 times ) Priam also somehow sneaked into the Greek camp. How exactly ?

Hector goes to the shore when hears about Greek army arriving. Well, he went there and saw their ships. Why he than doesn't retreat back to Troy and instead tries to engage enemy in the temple, despite knowing and seeing that more and more ships are coming with forces landing there ?
 
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Oct 2013
6,157
Planet Nine, Oregon
#13
∆ Good points, funny too! The inaccuracies lead the uninformed astray, while annoying the heck out of everyone else. And in the case of "Troy", using actual attempts at armour reconstructions would have made it much better visually ( black plastic vs. glittering bronze). But often aftermarket sales are considered, so they can sell more dreck. "300" is a shocking example; now many people think that armour from Miller's mind is the real thing.
 
Likes: Gvelion
Oct 2015
346
Belfast
#14
I really didn't know what to make of 300. King Leonidas was so arrogant and mean towards the Athenians, describing them as "brawlers" when they did fight in a battle. And I don't believe that the Persian King Xerxes really looked like that with all the chains and body piercings.
 
May 2015
1,031
The Netherlands
#15
I know they are often called Oscar bait, but do war movies tend to be better than your average cinema piece? I’d certainly rather watch Schindler’s list for the millionth time than avatar. no offence. but do they tend to be better, on average? in all departments.
I'm inclined to say no. There are excellent drama movies with a war-time setting, but actual war movies are generally quite bad.
 
May 2011
13,787
Navan, Ireland
#16
I really didn't know what to make of 300. King Leonidas was so arrogant and mean towards the Athenians, describing them as "brawlers" when they did fight in a battle. And I don't believe that the Persian King Xerxes really looked like that with all the chains and body piercings.
300 was supposed to be a soldiers tale told around the camp fire the night before a battle, as such it has 'tall tales' in it.
 

Scaeva

Ad Honorem
Oct 2012
5,476
#17
Funny enough, Iliad is even more competent in military matters than movie filmed in the beginning of 21st century. I found whole scene with Trojans attacking camp of Greeks hilarious in the movie. In Iliad Greeks fortified the camp and Trojans had hard time getting around those fortifications. But in the movie Greeks have none and their camp is out in the open. I also loved how fighting stopped before that, when Hector and Achilles face off. Both sides started watching it and cheering on their guy. It's like they knew what main characters are and when to stop fighting around them. After that, Hector for some reason stops fighting after killing Achilles ( Patroclus in reality ). Than both sides retreat and return to their homes.

Agamemnon came to walls of Troy for some reason in the movie. What he expected ? He had no siege weapons, no preparations for some sort of blockade or siege. Did he have spy inside who would sabotage Trojans and open the gates ? For some reason their whole army just marches to the walls of Troy. Hector also decided to wait for Agamemnon outside of Troy for some reason. Hector is more moronic here, even if there should be duel between Paris and Menelaus you don't need to field your whole army outside the walls.

Both sides only have heavy infantry. No chariots, no slingers and archers are only used to defend some specific spot.

There is no Logistics and you wonder how such huge army is able to feed itself for multiple weeks, while always staying on the beach and not doing anything else. ( besides fighting Trojans 2 times ) Priam also somehow sneaked into the Greek camp. How exactly ?

Hector goes to the shore when hears about Greek army arriving. Well, he went there and saw their ships. Why he than doesn't retreat back to Troy and instead tries to engage enemy in the temple, despite knowing and seeing that more and more ships are coming with forces landing there ?
While I share your opinion that the Iliad was brilliant, it was no more accurate than Hollywood portrayals of historical events. It is in fact loaded with anachronisms, since the tale was written down in an era when the events being described were already ancient.
 
Jan 2015
2,861
MD, USA
#18
I really didn't know what to make of 300. King Leonidas was so arrogant and mean towards the Athenians, describing them as "brawlers" when they did fight in a battle. And I don't believe that the Persian King Xerxes really looked like that with all the chains and body piercings.
"300" was a comic book, with every detail being utter fantasy. Please separate it competely from any notion of "history" in your mind! A LOT of effort was put into making the movie as UNrealistic as possible. Yes, there was a Spartan king named Leonidas, and he did fight the Persians, but that's about it.

Matthew
 

Scaeva

Ad Honorem
Oct 2012
5,476
#19
"300" was a comic book, with every detail being utter fantasy. Please separate it competely from any notion of "history" in your mind! A LOT of effort was put into making the movie as UNrealistic as possible. Yes, there was a Spartan king named Leonidas, and he did fight the Persians, but that's about it.

Matthew
The tragedy of the movie 300 being ever being made is that at the time Hollywood had also picked up Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield, with the intent of turning that into a film. While both Gates of Fire and 300 are historical fiction (emphasis on the fiction), Gates of Fire at least was set in the real world. 300 is a really a fantasy movie grafted onto a historical setting, and is about as historically accurate as Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter. Pressfield's book would have made a much better movie.

300 went into development first however, which led to Gates of Fire fading into development hell. Hollywood decided there wasn't room for more than one movie about Thermopylae and the people who purchased the rights to develop the book into a script, ultimately passed on turning into a film.
 
Sep 2016
929
Georgia
#20
While I share your opinion that the Iliad was brilliant, it was no more accurate than Hollywood portrayals of historical events. It is in fact loaded with anachronisms, since the tale was written down in an era when the events being described were already ancient.
Hollywood portrayal is worse though. They wanted to make story of Troy more based in reality and without supernatural elements. Well, my expectations are different than. However, they failed in that regard.

Characters and their actions come off as stupid and incompetent. Especially since Hector portrayed as experienced warrior and Agamemnon also subdued much of his neighbors. So Agamemnon also has experience in waging war. They also retained some events from Iliad, which now make no sense. Priam was able to get into the camp of Greeks because he had help of Hermes in Iliad, for example. But there are no Gods in the movie and it's not properly explained how he sneaked in. Instead just throwing one line of him knowing secret passages. What ?

Trojans and their allies were halted from overwhelming the Greeks by naked Achilles, who appeared there with all his rage. Than he got his new armor and etc. However, they couldn't properly portray that in the movie after trying to base it more in reality. Instead Hector for some reason stops fighting after killing Achilles ( Patroclus in reality ) and than both sides retreat and return to their homes. Which comes off as incredibly stupid, unrealistic and makes Hector complete moron. Makes Hector inconsistent as well. Since Hector saved Paris and killed Menelaus, despite him winning the duel fair and square.

Agamemnon also was eager to fight Trojans and attack them, because Zeus influenced him in believing that it will be the day Troy will fall and he should fight them. That fate and all will be on his side in battle and after defeating Trojan army, city will be captured as well. In the movie I can't even explain what his plan and strategy is. What was their plan ? How were they going to take Troy ? Never elaborated.

Archers are used in the movie, but implemented only for defending some specific spot. All archers of Agamemnon stayed in the camp while he brought only his heavy infantry, for example. Archers are implemented by Trojans in the battle at the walls of the city. However, Hector doesn't have any archers with him when he attacks the camp of the Greeks. All archers of Hector also stayed in the city, when Trojans went on the offensive and attacked the camp.

Slingers also should be in the movie.
 
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