Atlantis

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,581
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#11
Well, that's a good candidate to be Atlantis. Obviously it's well different from how Plato describes the two isles ... that's a part of the continent ... I don't see two isles ...

Anyway, we cannot expect that Plato was talking about something real, I tend to imagine he put together some different myths to create the right context for the philosophic reasoning he was developing. He made a kind of sum of different recalls and sources, like they did to create "King Arthur".
 
Likes: specul8

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,048
Australia
#12
Atlantis never existed except in the mind of Plato. It can't be made more simple than that. You can dig up all the lost settlements you want but none of them will be Atlantis. Matt has already given you some threads to start with. Why dredge this nonsense up yet again?
So you cant supply the evidence I asked for then ?
 
Aug 2014
4,232
Australia
#13
So you cant supply the evidence I asked for then ?
Matt has already given you the relevant links. Go back and read the previous threads on this nonsense. It is a waste of time and bandwidth repeating them yet again here. If you were serious you would have used Historum's search function instead of making other people do the work for you.
 

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,048
Australia
#14
My bad .

I should have read through 58 pages of previous threads to get a simple answer.

:rolleyes:




I didnt want you to repeat all of that ! All I wanted was your opinion on the question I asked you.

And no .... I do not suffer from Atlanitis .... it was genuine question fueled by curiosity.
 
Jan 2015
874
England
#15
I absolutely stand by the belief that it was simply a somewhat inaccurate description of the Minoan civilisation.

Plato says it was ‘9000’ years ago, but he also says that Egypt was founded something like 11000 years ago, so his dates are basically nonsense. More importantly, he places the war between the Atlanteans and the Greeks at about the same time as the founding of Athens. According to Ancient Greek sources, this was around 1500 B.C.E. Plato also gives the names of four Greeks involved in the war, and they ‘just so happen’ to match the names of four Greek kings whose reigns are placed by most sources to about 1500 B.C.E or a few decades after.

That is precisely the time when the Greeks were fighting a war against the Minoans, which they won, just like in the Atlantis story.

Then there are all the specific details about Atlantis that match with specific details about the Minoans, like it being a naval power possessing one main island and several others which formed an established trade route to the continent, the presence of a ‘barbaric’ temple dedicated to Poseidon and a goddess in which bull-fighting was performed, the use of red, black, and white building materials, and many other things.

And, of course, the fact that the Minoans’ second most important island, Thera, suffered a cataclysmic natural disaster which caused a great deal of it to collapse into the sea.

Those are just the highlights of the connection between Atlantis and the Minoans, but there are many more that could be mentioned.
 
Aug 2018
29
Canada
#16
National Geographic is getting just as moronic as the History Channel. Atlantis was an artificial construct, an allegorical device.
just goes to show how much money there is in the subject. natgeo is the tip of the iceberg. any sensible man can clean up.
 
Mar 2018
663
UK
#17
Plato invents Atlantis as an allegory for what happens to a civilization that suffers from too much hubris and becomes too imperialistic. In that sense, Atlantis is based on Athens more than anything else. However, to make the allegory better literature, he sets it in a far distant past and makes strong allusions to Greek mythology, which always viewed the past as larger, more heroic, closer to the gods and in every day greater than the present day. So he invents an ancient civilization which is larger-than-life in every way. It's on an island bigger than Africa and Asia combined. It's beyond the Pillars of Hercules. They have hugely advanced technology and society (for their time). And so on...

So Atlantis is invented in the same way as, say, the world of game thrones is. It never existed, never will and, the author most probably never tried to make people believe it was a real physical place. However, all authors draw inspiration from somewhere. GRR Martin draws from Roman and late-medieval history when he constructs Westeros and Essos. It's entirely plausible that Plato would draw from Minoan history and mythology. But that doesn't mean that Atlantis is a portrayal of the Minoans any more than the Andals are a portrayal of the Normans. It's just a feature of human imagination that, when we create things, we draw inspiration from what we know.

@specul8 If you want a source, read the relevant sections of Timaeus. It's blatantly obvious that it is an allegory.
 
Likes: specul8
Aug 2018
29
Canada
#18
@specul8 If you want a source, read the relevant sections of Timaeus. It's blatantly obvious that it is an allegory.

Or maybe Critias included too much detail. Maybe it gave away the actual location and where/what Plato was plagiarizing the story from. The omission of Gades from Timaeus is the obvious answer and Pindars Olympian 3 tells us where Atlantis is to within a few kilometers. Of course "Atlantis" is the mythical Persian homeland called Yimkard.

There is nothing inaccurate scientifically in the story when you place it in the right spot.

ps if Plato wrote Alcibiades then he is busted since it mentions Zoroaster proving he had read Persian mythology.
 
Last edited:
Aug 2014
4,232
Australia
#19
Or maybe Critias included too much detail. Maybe it gave away the actual location and where/what Plato was plagiarizing the story from. The omission of Gades from Timaeus is the obvious answer and Pindars Olympian 3 tells us where Atlantis is to within a few kilometers. Of course "Atlantis" is the mythical Persian homeland called Yimkard.

There is nothing inaccurate scientifically in the story when you place it in the right spot.

ps if Plato wrote Alcibiades then he is busted since it mentions Zoroaster proving he had read Persian mythology.
It just means that he spoke to a Persian at some point in his lifetime.
 

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