Atlantis

Aug 2018
29
Canada
#21
It just means that he spoke to a Persian at some point in his lifetime.
well if you are talking to a persian about zoroaster and ahura mazda then you get around to yima and the flood.
persians were the enemies of greece and egyptians so propoganda wise they were a great target.
once the persians targeted the egyptians the threat somewhat subsided in Greece.

if you google plato plagiarize zoroaster you will find many lively discussions that have gone on for along time.

would the world be less offended by the existence of yimkard? they [you all] obviously are offended by a real atlantis.

peace

ps if you look at a map you can see how problematic for the Greeks it was to have the mythical Persian homeland at the location Pindars geography plus Critias suggested.
 
Last edited:

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,581
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#22
If we want to make the effort to summarize the matter of Atlantis, we can start from the beginning:

did Plato wake up thinking to introduce in history Atlantis? Obviously there is always a first guy to write about this or that, but usually this doesn't happen 9,000 or more years after the events ...

In the dialogue Plato creates a context, a clear context: Solon was in Egypt when he heard about Atlantis [obviously Egyptians knew about that lost civilization].

Now, we've got two problems here:

despite all the efforts made by Atlantis lovers, it's impossible to find Atlantis in ancient Egyptian texts, inscriptions ... No Egyptian talked about Atlantis. So at Sais the priests [in particular one, called "Sonchis"], suddenly, remembered something that no one before of them had remembered.

Not only that, let's imagine that there was a "secret knowledge" preserved by the priests ... if it was secret, why did they told Solon about Atlantis? Let's jump this passage.

There is an other problem ... Solon was a poet and a writer himself. A simple question arises: why didn't he write about Atlantis? Such a fascinating tale ...

So ... Egyptians knew about Atlantis, but in more than 3,000 years of history they didn't write about it and Solon, after learning about Atlantis in Egypt, didn't write about it. Plato dared to share such a secret with the world ...
 
Likes: Olleus
Aug 2018
29
Canada
#23
So ... Egyptians knew about Atlantis, but in more than 3,000 years of history they didn't write about it and Solon, after learning about Atlantis in Egypt, didn't write about it. Plato dared to share such a secret with the world ...
you cannot say categorically the egyptians did not have a mythical atlantis. setis tomb mentions the hidden circles in lake serser [his goal as a spirit was to get there] and the temple at edfu has an interesting story about the early gods [ptah] and the poylands encircled by rings of mu waters and a flood. eae reymond writes about that alot and she is quoted alot.

peace
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,581
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#24
you cannot say categorically the egyptians did not have a mythical atlantis. setis tomb mentions the hidden circles in lake serser [his goal as a spirit was to get there] and the temple at edfu has an interesting story about the early gods [ptah] and the poylands encircled by rings of mu waters and a flood. eae reymond writes about that alot and she is quoted alot.

peace
I can look for the original text and take a look. Anyway I'm afraid it's a matter of interpretation. The circle is a base innate shape in our mind and the presence of an isle encircled by rings of land is not exactly a direct reference to Atlantis. Can you provide a link to the Egyptian texts, just to gain time? Otherwise I will look for Edfu temple's inscriptions. On archive.org it's possible to check the early work by Emile Chassinat [who copied all the inscriptions]. I can face a text in hieroglyphics with a dictionary an a bit of patient.
 
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Aug 2018
29
Canada
#25
I can look for the original text and take a look. Anyway I'm afraid it's a matter of interpretation. The circle is a base innate shape in our mind and the presence of an isle encircled by rings of land is not exactly a direct reference to Atlantis. Can you provide a link to the Egyptian texts, just to gain time? Otherwise I will look for Edfu temple's inscriptions.
the round multiringed ringed city has been a historical problem for humanity for along time. they have always been aggressive. from neolithic cannibals in germany to mari, babylon, any one of the persian creations and up to arkaim. no doubt they modeled themselves on the success of some mythical prehistoric circular city.

i will get you some links. alot of the good stuff [like faulkner] is now behind a paywall. maybe some reymond is still free. the world has changed sadly.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,581
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#26
the round multiringed ringed city has been a historical problem for humanity for along time. they have always been aggressive. from neolithic cannibals in germany to mari, babylon, any one of the persian creations and up to arkaim. no doubt they modeled themselves on the success of some mythical prehistoric circular city.

i will get you some links. alot of the good stuff [like faulkner] is now behind a paywall. maybe some reymond is still free. the world has changed sadly.
Thanks, that will help. Regarding that particular configuration for a city [or a site of other nature] it's not so rare in prehistory. A site comes to my mind, in Israel, Gilgal Refaim.

Gilgal-Refaim.jpg

From early Bronze Age II [Wiki page: Rujm el-Hiri - Wikipedia]
 
Aug 2018
29
Canada
#27
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AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
25,581
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#29
reymond before she got hitched
worship of the ancestral gods at edfu
and
shebtiw

onto to setis tomb.

i am guessing none of us read hiergylphics but here are all the texts. noone but budge is free anymore. maybe alford.
The problem is just this: I have read criticisms of the "pro-Atlantis" translations of the so called Building Texts of Edfu. And about this I have read authors saying that those texts talked about populations coming from other regions of Africa, not from Atlantis. This is why I want to see the hieroglyphics [in case it's a Hieratic text ... I will have difficulties].

A part that Edfu texts have been engraved many centuries after the events they would tell ... it's like to trust a guy from the time of Napoleon about what happened in Rome in the age of August.

Anyway ... I will have to spend a bit of time looking for the hieroglyphics ...
 
Aug 2018
29
Canada
#30
The problem is just this: I have read criticisms of the "pro-Atlantis" translations of the so called Building Texts of Edfu. And about this I have read authors saying that those texts talked about populations coming from other regions of Africa, not from Atlantis. This is why I want to see the hieroglyphics [in case it's a Hieratic text ... I will have difficulties].

A part that Edfu texts have been engraved many centuries after the events they would tell ... it's like to trust a guy from the time of Napoleon about what happened in Rome in the age of August.

Anyway ... I will have to spend a bit of time looking for the hieroglyphics ...
it is mostly senseless to quibble over texts without archaeology and other modern science. i do have to mention that pindars olympian 3 not being included in any discussion [scholarly or otherwise past or present] on atlantis or the pillars of heracles seems very strange to me. its been around and translated in the west since 1438. it seems to be the first ever mention we have [476bc however that was arrived at].

the first tomb texts [of unas] say to get to this paradise you should get in a boat in egypt and sail towards the northstar as long as you can. there you will find a dangerous river that leads to the great lake of paradise which is where the circles are.

to make this more modern we could look for the material culture from early egyptian civilization circa 4000bc showing up in "atlantis" in 4500bc. is that something that should be true? proof the story could have travelled through say pots and idols? is it better than quibbling over texts? at least there could be pictures.
 

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