Augustus and Hitler: Integrity?

Oct 2012
3
Hi everyone,

My teacher was talking about how "integrity creates a clear line of policy and identity for a state."

Can anyone think of what he meant? Regarding Augustus Caesar and Adolf Hitler?


Looking forward to hearing from you.

Shiv
 
Dec 2009
19,933
Hi everyone,

My teacher was talking about how "integrity creates a clear line of policy and identity for a state."

Can anyone think of what he meant? Regarding Augustus Caesar and Adolf Hitler?


Looking forward to hearing from you.

Shiv
No idea, but the last year in the University of Oregon professor John Nichols presented a seminar on the comparison of both anti-democratic autocrats; this passage comes from its introduction brochure [sic] (emphasis is mine)
This course examines the progress of two gangsters, C. Octavius (aka "Augustus") and Adolph Hitler.
There are striking similarities in their careers.
Both rose to prominence in the period of intense social conflict brought on by devastating wars and uncertain peace.
In both cultures, traditional values were questioned and neglected;
in both cases, their way to power was marked by violence and unconstitutional behavior.
As they reached their goals, both preserved the appearance of the constitution, yet systematically undermined the legal order.
Both had an interest in architecture and literature;
both sought to legitimize their legally uncertain status
by grand building projects,
by social welfare projects, and
by an appeal to traditional family values.

Despite the similarities, history's judgment of Augustus is far kindlier than that accorded to Hitler.

... We will then spend a session or two on the historiographical question, namely, how to make sense of the different judgments on the two men.
Thereafter students will present their papers either on a significant aspect of the careers of Augustus or Hitler or on a "tyrant" of their choice from another era ...
Nichols' bibliography for this course was:

Preliminary
D. C. A. Shotter: Augustus Caesar (Lancaster Pamphlets). Paperback, Routledge, 128 pages, ISBN 0415060486,
Werner Eck, The Age of Augustus, Blackwell Ancient Lives , ISBN 1405151498,
Ian Kershaw: Hitler: Profiles in Power, Paperback, Longman, 190 pages, ISBN 0582437563.

Coursebooks
J. M. Moore and P. A. Brunt, Res gestae Divi Augusti, Oxford UP (Latin and English)
Ian Kershaw, The "Hitler Myth", Image and Reality, Oxford UP
Nazi Documents, 1919 -1936 Volumes 1 and 2, Exeter UP.

Recommended
Richard Overy, The Penguin Atlas of the 3rd Reich, Penguin,
Chris Scarre, The Penguin Atlas of Ancient Rome, Penguin.


Hope this stuff may be useful here strictly within the rules of our Homework Forum :) :) :cool:

(Otherwise, my apologies & please delete this post :eek: :eek: :eek:)
 
Last edited:
Apr 2010
16,748
Slovakia
i hope no one is comparing augustus to hitler .thats pathetic
Nazi actually viewed their state in a way as continuation of the Roman empire ...that is why they called it "Third Reich" -first been "Holly Roman Empire". Here was also plenty of classical influence on culture and art in Third Reich. Architecture being most prominent example but there was more.
 
May 2012
171
Nazi actually viewed their state in a way as continuation of the Roman empire ...that is why they called it "Third Reich" -first been "Holly Roman Empire".
That's a reflection on their own delusions and insanity, not on the character of Augustus or the Romans.

Here was also plenty of classical influence on culture and art in Third Reich. Architecture being most prominent example but there was more.
That's from indirect borrowing, long after Greco-Roman civilization fell, not direct influence from the Romans; they could have copied aspects of Chinese culture, but it wouldn't make them Chinese....
 
Dec 2009
19,933
i hope no one is comparing augustus to hitler .thats pathetic
Bare adjectives aside, you can verify in my post #2 that prof. Nichols actually made a rather strong case for such comparison, which could be described as anything but "pathetic".

Personally, I happen to be a huge fan of C. Octavius Thurinus aka CJ Caesar Jr aka Augustus, and I couldn't despise Herr Hitler any more (as BTW anyone could easily verify all along Historum)

However, the issue here is not personal taste or sympathy but the rigorous critical analysis of the available relevant hard evidence.

Again, far as I can tell and being as objective as possible, must admit prof. Nichols has developed a coherent comparison of some critical trends & points of the political career of both anti-democratic usurpers; just check them out in my previous post.
 

pixi666

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
2,534
The Great Indoors
Recommended
Chris Scarre, The Penguin Atlas of Ancient Rome, Penguin.
As an aside, please nobody listen to Professor Nichols and get this book. I'm very familiar with it, and it's littered with mistakes, inconsistencies, omissions, and contradictions.
 
Apr 2010
16,748
Slovakia
That's a reflection on their own delusions and insanity, not on the character of Augustus or the Romans.
Nazi were not the first one and not the last one to get inspired by Rome. US founding fathers were fascinated with Rome as well.

That's from indirect borrowing, long after Greco-Roman civilization fell, not direct influence from the Romans; they could have copied aspects of Chinese culture, but it wouldn't make them Chinese....
Indirect borrowing via whom?
 

Mandate of Heaven

Ad Honorem
Jul 2010
6,851
Not sure what it is
Why does your teacher say Augustus necessarily have more integrity than Hitler? Because Augustus succeeded and Hitler failed? Because it seems to me both were ambitious, murderours aggressors.
 
May 2012
171
Nazi were not the first one and not the last one to get inspired by Rome. US founding fathers were fascinated with Rome as well.
But they didn't view themselves as a "continuation" of the Roman Empire as you, yourself, said the Nazis did. And if they *did*, I'd say they were delusional, also - pro-American propaganda be damned.

What some don't seem to understand is one group copying a civilization that "fascinates" them, does *not* make that group apart of that civilization.

Indirect borrowing via whom?
Via no one - there is no direct link between German culture and Ancient Roman culture. As I said, any influence from the Greco-Roman World on modern Germany is totally indirect, and came about by the Germans incorporating aspects of their culture, hundreds of years after their civilization fell. And that goes for English, Irish, and the majority of other Northern Europeans.