Back to Eden or Road to Hell ?

Todd Feinman

Ad Honorem
Oct 2013
6,592
Planet Nine, Oregon
What would society look like if TotalAaron and a few others were in control. What would you do as president of the USA? About poverty, education, minority issues, LGBT, etc.? Curious.

A nice helping hand for the poor. state welfare and the like. education would be as it is in say Australia, free by default but expensive private schools would exist.

As for minority issues? i would not accept them.

LGBT? Ban it outright like Russia

Paedophiles or convicted criminals of say murder? The good ol Tarpeian Rock method.

i can go into more detail if you wish
I see. Well not exactly what I expected, in a pleasant way, though :)
I disagree with much of it, but respect your right to say it. I suspect you have been raised with different cultural norms than I have.
 
Feb 2016
5,049
Atlantic Ocean
I see. Well not exactly what I expected, in a pleasant way, though :)
I disagree with much of it, but respect your right to say it. I suspect you have been raised with different cultural norms than I have.
Did i mention maintaining a 90% white super majority? that would be a very important part i dare say.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,064
Ok, another good response, not perfect, but good.

But, and I am asking nicely. What about your pets? And your grandma? And the people you grew up with. The people you go to church with. Or go to crossfit with or whatever group you want.

I mean yeah, moving is "ok" if you have to, but why not work, instead, to make the country better - as a whole - so that people can have a decent life wherever they are and not have to leave behind their pets and grandma and their church or whatever other group???
Obviously its not a walk in the park and requires some sacrifices... say goodbye to the pets
Re grandma luckily we now have skype and such so we can talk to her for free anytime (and how often was she being visited anyway... that would depend on each person)... Then after a while when we are better off, we can travel and visit....

As for the church and bingo group we'll have to find one in the new place... and if they dont have bingo, well we switch our hobby to log throwing or whatever is available locally
 

Robert165

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
4,266
North Georgia
Obviously its not a walk in the park and requires some sacrifices... say goodbye to the pets
Re grandma luckily we now have skype and such so we can talk to her for free anytime (and how often was she being visited anyway... that would depend on each person)... Then after a while when we are better off, we can travel and visit....

As for the church and bingo group we'll have to find one in the new place... and if they dont have bingo, well we switch our hobby to log throwing or whatever is available locally
ok, i really am off to sleep now
was just replying on another thread

ok yeah that was a good answer, not perfect
(not trying to be rude, very tired)
not a perfect/ideal solution but a good response
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,064
Some, not most.



It's not just becoming rich, it's not being poor that often requires luck and chance.



Again, the kind of job you work in one place will likely be the same job in another place because that's your skill set. The idea that you'll suddenly be paid more for doing the same work as before just doesn't exist in reality.
No, most...I mean its strange you would say otherwise... The US is 98%+ immigrants/their descendants and most are middle class + ... Similar situation in Australia and Canada....

On the second point... So first the cost of goods and services and thus salaries vary from place to place.. I linked earlied an article where they pay $140 000 for truck drivers in a shale oil area... Granted this is extreme.... But it is not uncommon to get better pay for a similar job elsewhere..

But its not just the better pay... its also the opportunities.... if you cant find a job where you live, but you can elsewhere that is a huge difference.... And its important to be able to find a new job should your current one end for any reason... the more jobs the less you lose in case of temporary unemployment.. Further if your skill set is at premium in your new place , you're more likely to move up the ladder.... which means even better pay
Also if your job is in demand you can have a full work week, where as in your current place if there is less demand you might only be working part time...
All these things together make for much better prospects and higher income...
 

ameteurhistorian

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
2,512
USA
No, most...I mean its strange you would say otherwise... The US is 98%+ immigrants/their descendants and most are middle class + ... Similar situation in Australia and Canada....
Most of those immigrants came here poor and stayed poor through their entire lives. It was only generations later that certain segments and individuals, whom aren't immigrants, actually became middle class.

Most immigrants in general do not change the social class they came from. Their descendants however can and do, but that in of itself takes time. My great-grandparents were peasants, and it took three generations for one of them to actually get a full college education and not work manual labor.

On the second point... So first the cost of goods and services and thus salaries vary from place to place..
But they are getting more and more expensive, at least here in the USA.

I linked earlied an article where they pay $140 000 for truck drivers in a shale oil area... Granted this is extreme.... But it is not uncommon to get better pay for a similar job elsewhere..
Not everyone has the capacity or skill set for that kind of job. The fact that I'm 5'3" at 110 lbs will put me at a disadvantage in being hired in a number of jobs related to physical labor and heavy machinery.

But its not just the better pay... its also the opportunities.... if you cant find a job where you live, but you can elsewhere that is a huge difference.... And its important to be able to find a new job should your current one end for any reason... the more jobs the less you lose in case of temporary unemployment.. Further if your skill set is at premium in your new place , you're more likely to move up the ladder.... which means even better pay
And to get more opportunities, you need money to actually find and reach them. Again, poverty is a cycle.

Also if your job is in demand you can have a full work week, where as in your current place if there is less demand you might only be working part time...
All these things together make for much better prospects and higher income...
And those things are entirely arbitrary. Being good at a job isn't a promise for full time; I've worked overtime in multiple instances in my current job despite being a temp worker. Not everyone can also work full-time either, and full-time in general means less time for yourself which includes enrichment.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,064
Most of those immigrants came here poor and stayed poor through their entire lives. It was only generations later that certain segments and individuals, whom aren't immigrants, actually became middle class.

Most immigrants in general do not change the social class they came from. Their descendants however can and do, but that in of itself takes time. My great-grandparents were peasants, and it took three generations for one of them to actually get a full college education and not work manual labor.



But they are getting more and more expensive, at least here in the USA.



Not everyone has the capacity or skill set for that kind of job. The fact that I'm 5'3" at 110 lbs will put me at a disadvantage in being hired in a number of jobs related to physical labor and heavy machinery.



And to get more opportunities, you need money to actually find and reach them. Again, poverty is a cycle.



And those things are entirely arbitrary. Being good at a job isn't a promise for full time; I've worked overtime in multiple instances in my current job despite being a temp worker. Not everyone can also work full-time either.
You can always find exceptions....

What you fail to see is that most immigrants significantly improve their status as compared to where they came from.. it is for this reason that as we type thousands of people from Africa are risking their lives in the med to make it to Europe....

And it pays

The photograph below is from the port of Tangiers in Morocco, where ferries make the short trip to/from Spain.
A moroccan migrant comes back to vacation in his home country.. sure his mercedes is second hand but it is overloaded with goodies he brings back for his extended family.. He will be a hero.... Its hundreds of cars overloaded like this one every day in just that one port... had he stayed he could never have afforded such a car and such loads of gifts



And no "those things" are not arbitrary... its supply and demand...

Also people need to get rid of this obsession with college education... its NOT the only route to success......
Supply and demand... College education USED to be a surefire way when a small percentage of the population had one.. Nowadays when so many people have its no longer so.....
For exaple I highly discourage my colleagues from going to MBAs.. selling MBAs has become a dirty business in the US.... People end up spending lots of money and time which they cannot then recover...
 

ameteurhistorian

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
2,512
USA
You can always find exceptions....
A general trend is not an exception.

What you fail to see is that most immigrants significantly improve their status as compared to where they came from.. it is for this reason that as we type thousands of people from Africa are risking their lives in the med to make it to Europe....
And they're still poor. They maybe safer, they may have more security, but when it comes to material wealth and opportunities, they're still the same.


The photograph below is from the port of Tangiers in Morocco, where ferries make the short trip to/from Spain.
A moroccan migrant comes back to vacation in his home country.. sure his mercedes is second hand but it is overloaded with goodies he brings back for his extended family.. He will be a hero.... Its hundreds of cars overloaded like this one every day in just that one port... had he stayed he could never have afforded such a car and such loads of gifts
Oh for pity's sake.

Poor people don't have a summer vacation home. Poor people oftentimes don't have a car, much less a Mercedes, or the means to carry everything they have on it to another country. You're only seeing a certain group about a certain level capable of doing this.

And no "those things" are not arbitrary... its supply and demand...
Which are arbitrary, because supply and demand are driven by the whims of the populace.

Also people need to get rid of this obsession with college education... its NOT the only route to success......
It however was and to an extent, still is.

Supply and demand... College education USED to be a surefire way when a small percentage of the population had one.. Nowadays when so many people have its no longer so.....
Yes, because it was seen as a way out of poverty.

For exaple I highly discourage my colleagues from going to MBAs.. selling MBAs has become a dirty business in the US.... People end up spending lots of money and time which they cannot then recover...
And who is to blame for that? Not the people who are impoverished from it.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,064
Oh for pity's sake.

Poor people don't have a summer vacation home. Poor people oftentimes don't have a car, much less a Mercedes, or the means to carry everything they have on it to another country. You're only seeing a certain group about a certain level capable of doing this.
There are tens of thousands just like him.... left their country with nothing.... I dont know how much poorer he could have been...
Found a job, lived on a budget, saved as much as he could.... Every 3 or 4 years he comes back to his country to visit his family... meanwhile he transfers them money.... In some countries tranfers from migrant are the number 1 source of hard currency.... At some point he probably took a loan and bought a car....

And he does not have a summer home , he is coming back to visit his extended family (parents , brothers, sisters etc...)

That's the average story of such migrants, they even have special words for them.... and that is why many more are attempting to do the same thing, sometimes at the risk of their lives....