Before the 13th Century, did any Groups establish lands or contacts in North or South America?

Oct 2017
232
America ??
May I ask the OP why he is interested in the 13th as opposed to the 15th century with the first known undisputed link formation between the two hemispheres?

What is special about the 13th century regarding this?
 
Aug 2019
59
Netherlands
Iceland was never considered a part of America, as Greenland was and is, even if this is a question of usual criteria. So, technically about Greenland you are right, even if I think that the question here raised by the OP was not that. It is a deeper historiographical question. Not a question of geographical criteria.



The possibility that some Welch or some boat from other place from Europe or Africa reached America is real, on a shipwreck or be wrong winds. But that isn’t the point. The point is the establishment of a link. That was made be the Norse for a short time, according to the Sagas and the archaeological records, and then by Columbus.

Do you have a source for that? I am quite fond of the voyages made by the Polynesians.
There were several articles through the years with indications that contact would have been established. Sweet potatoes and chicken bones were found in polynesia that could be traced to south america. They also found skeletons in south america that contained distinct polynesian dna i believe. It makes sense, polynesians were skillful sailors/navigators and the only thing they had to do is continue to sail eastwards like they did all the time, until a massive landmass would come in sight.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,872
Portugal
There were several articles through the years with indications that contact would have been established. Sweet potatoes and chicken bones were found in polynesia that could be traced to south america. They also found skeletons in south america that contained distinct polynesian dna i believe. It makes sense, polynesians were skillful sailors/navigators and the only thing they had to do is continue to sail eastwards like they did all the time, until a massive landmass would come in sight.
Yes, that is mentioned in Wikipedia in several articles, and I already saw it mentioned here several times. But even if these are indications, as you so well called it, they are far from being a blunt proof. We can’t discuss genetics here, but about that we should recall that the link was made between Polynesians and people in the southeast of Brazil, not besewn Polynesians and people in Chile, Peru, or Equator. And that needs a coherent explanation, that at the time it seems we can’t give. Chile and Peru are the nearest land of the Easter Island, the most Eastern known presence of the Polynesians, that arrived there around the 12th century. But with the deforestation they may have lost some navigation skills.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,872
Portugal
Yes. One source would be "1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus," by Charles C. Mann. On page 24, of his second edition, Second Vintage Edition, July 2011 (originally published in 2005), he shows a map of "Native America in 1000 AD (or the beginning of the 11th century) that points out the presence of the Toltec Empire, the Mayans, and others.
Don't understood if the post was addressed to me or to the OP, but let me comment that you don’t need to make a reference of a map in a book published in 2011 to prove that there were people in America before Columbus.

I wrote "Of course, I don't know that this is true (when I was a child in Alabama, I didn't know anyone who spoke Welsh!) but these kind of stories persist" and made no claims for the authenticity of Mr. Williams' story. I suspect that he is referring to the supposed events around the 1170 voyage of Prince Madoc (Madog) ab Owain to Mobile, Alabama. Apparently many believe it but (IMO) it doesn't sound likely. That being said, I also added the point that many outrageous stories often turn out to have a germ of truth to them.
Thanks, duncanness. It was because your last sentence that I asked you if you knew some study about it. That when you lived in Alabama there were not people speaking Welsh is understandable, those stories were famous in the 19th century. Anyway Prince Madoc legend is fascinating. I recall that some time ago I begun a speculative thread about pre-Columbian voyages to America, and he was mentioned as well as Saint Brendan.
 
May 2019
125
Earth
Here's something about material goods from Asia reaching the other side of the Bering Sea: Bronze Buckle Shows Ancient Trade Between Eurasia and North America | Smart News | Smithsonian

Honestly, if you know the Bering Sea region at all, you'd find it perfectly plausible that the Yupik and other indigenous groups on either side would have contact with each other before Europeans showed up. I am not suggesting that East Asians like the Chinese or Japanese traded directly with people in Alaska. But I don't think it impossible that some goods from East Asia could have found their way to Alaska via indigenous Siberians trading them northward and then eastward over to indigenous Alaskans...
 
Aug 2018
515
Southern Indiana
I wrote "Of course, I don't know that this is true (when I was a child in Alabama, I didn't know anyone who spoke Welsh!) but these kind of stories persist" and made no claims for the authenticity of Mr. Williams' story. I suspect that he is referring to the supposed events around the 1170 voyage of Prince Madoc (Madog) ab Owain to Mobile, Alabama. Apparently many believe it but (IMO) it doesn't sound likely. That being said, I also added the point that many outrageous stories often turn out to have a germ of truth to them.
One story has him ending up at the Falls of the Ohio.
The legend of Madoc ab Owain Gwynedd: Welsh Indians at the Falls of the Ohio | The Filson Historical Society
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,872
Portugal
There is the alleged "Bay of Jars" in Brazil, supposedly a Roman ship ended up there either by choice or accident.

RIO ARTIFACTS MAY INDICATE ROMAN VISIT
Hehehe! From your link: "Mr. Marx said yesterday that the Portuguese authorities were trying to block Brazil from issuing him a permit to excavate the wreck he thinks is buried there."

Mr. Marx forgot that Brazil is independent since 1822.

In some way that reminds that Phoenician forgery found in Brazil in the late 19th century.

EDIT:

What is the origin of the legend? Is it avaiable in English online?
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,790
USA
May I ask the OP why he is interested in the 13th as opposed to the 15th century with the first known undisputed link formation between the two hemispheres?

What is special about the 13th century regarding this?
I thought that the 13th century was a good time to start from. I wanted to try and provide as long a timeline as possible before the Columbus era.

How about from 1200ad -1300ad...has anyone come across any groups that made it to North or South America? Could any ships have ended up in what is today New York or Florida