Before the 13th Century, did any Groups establish lands or contacts in North or South America?

JoanOfArc007

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Dec 2015
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The Europeans did not possess the ship technology to make a round trip Atlantic crossing in 1300. The island hopping technique used by the Vikings across the North Atlantic obviously worked, but this dictates landfall in far NE Canada, a very long way from NY and Florida.

This pretty much eliminates the probability of a group intentionally boarding ships to make a trans Atlantic crossing.

There is a good chance that a few ships were carried across the Atlantic by storms with some crew members surviving, but you must realize that these ships were not probably not carrying supplies for a lengthy voyage, so food and water become significant issues. Also if they somehow survived to land in the Americas and intended to return home, the ship would have required repairs and refitting without access to proper supplies. That is a pretty stiff requirement to overcome.
You say pretty much but as opposed to 100% sure. So before 1300 would you 100% rule out the possibility that any group for example from Africa, Europe , Asia or the Middle East ended up in North or South America? As for North America ill include NE Canada but also the east or west coast of the modern USA or South America.


You would submit that its a case of technology? I have read the oldest boat in the world was from 10,000 years ago. Would you then rule out all ancient civilizations such as The Empires of Rome, Persia, Egypt as well as China from being able to travel to North or South America. Why have we heard folks say before Columbus the Chinese, Vikings, or Romans(and thats not all) "might have made it to America" Anytime I talk with folks about the so called discovery of America by Columbus people say that other groups already did or possibly did arrive before Columbus.
 
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Oct 2017
244
America ??
I thought that the 13th century was a good time to start from. I wanted to try and provide as long a timeline as possible before the Columbus era.

How about from 1200ad -1300ad...has anyone come across any groups that made it to North or South America? Could any ships have ended up in what is today New York or Florida
I still feel like more logical times to start from are either the 15th century with the start of extensive European exploration & other important events marking the end of the middle ages, or another more logical time like the turn of the millennium a few centuries earlier, or the start of the Middle Ages, or the Vikings, etc. 13th century still seems pretty random to me, that’s the 1200’s AD. That’s still considered to be well within the high Middle Ages, still quite a long time before European exploration & columbus’ journey & not very connected with. The crusades were still going on over in the Levant. & every historian knows that the reason columbus was granted his journey was because the catholic monarchs of Castile had just won the last battle of the Reconquista, if not then columbus may not have been able to make his journeys, though I’m sure either Europeans or Maghreb Arabs would have eventually discovered the Americas anyways, the main question is just how much later & for what reasons.

I don’t think the crusades would have ever furnished any reason for Europeans or Arabs to explore the deeper Atlantic, it was the pressure for trade routes around Arabs that did.
It’s well established now that Vikings were the first undisputed old wolders to reach & minimally settle in the new at least by the late 10th century, though they probably wouldn’t have had nearly as much knowledge of the world as mid-millennium Europeans did to realize that they were dealing with newly discovered hemispheres. It should be logical that the Vikings made it to the Americas since they were expert mariners, couldn’t any strong storm or winds have easily drift a vessel to within sight of North American shores. But their contact isn’t considered significant to European or world history, it appears to have been minor, seems to almost went undiscovered & could have easily been, it’s basically reconstructed history as opposed to recorded. So the Vikings currently set the earliest known undisputed old world contact with the new, perhaps there ought to be such a term or concept as ‘pre-Viking contact’ alongside ‘precolumbian’. I suppose the earliest evidence for inter-hemispheric contact for North America whatsoever would be the Solutrean hypothesis & Kennewick Man’s skull’s affinity with European features, though that’s very subjective & debatable & dealing with prehistory as opposed to history if that’s what your more interested in. & I think it’s obvious that any group that made it from outside the hemisphere would have eventually, probably even quickly, been assimilated into the wider Amerindian populations since none seem to have lasted into historic times.

As of now Viking remains dating to the late 10th century serve as the oldest evidence for inter-hemispheric contact in North America, but on the other hand evidence for inter-hemispheric* contact stretches much further back for South America, the leading evidences are sweet potatoes, South American chicken bones, Thor Heyerdahl’s successful voyage, & finally the Luzia woman’s skull’s affinity with negroid features. Their each worth their own discussions really. Chickens are an old world flightless birds who could only be spread by people, especially across inhospitable environments like open water, I think the only contradictions to their along with Luzia’s bones would be errors in dating, which I suppose is still very possible if anyone else agrees as well or knows much about, but sweet potato’s wide dispersal throughout both Oceania & South America is perhaps the hardest to combat. I think their South American origins are well established, though there’s been more recent arguments that their origins may be Asian, but either way the only possible explanation for their being present in both Polynesia & South America without human effort is by drifting, either floating through the ocean naked or perhaps more likely somehow being encased or preserved in some kind of box or compartment, perhaps being picked up by some mariners on some distant exploration or fishing voyage. This is just the simplest hypothesis not involving human effort, it could be likely that people traveled or shipwrecked as well. But I wonder why in contrast there’s no plant or animal evidences for inter-hemispheric contact for North America like there is for South?

*If you consider Oceania to still be part of the old world, otherwise eastern hemisphere may be better term, but the term in its strict longitudinal context actually includes most of the pacific)
 
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Tulius

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May 2016
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Portugal
The crusades were still going on over in the Levant. & every historian knows that the reason columbus was granted his journey was because the catholic monarchs of Castile had just won the last battle of the Reconquista, if not then columbus may not have been able to make his journeys, though I’m sure either Europeans or Maghreb Arabs would have eventually discovered the Americas anyways, the main question is just how much later & for what reasons.
The Catholic Monarchs, apparently more Isabel than Fernando, since Isabel was the ruling queen in Castile, and Aragon never had nothing to do with Columbus voyages, financed Columbus because they were unable to explore the West Coast of Africa, due the recent treaty with Portugal, the Treaty of Alcáçovas (1479).

On the other hand, Columbus proposed the exploration of the West Atlantic to the Portuguese king, D. João II, while the sailor was still leaving in Portugal, and his requests were denied, wisely, since Portugal already knew how to reach India.

It was this denial that made Columbus go to Castile. By the way, a similar situation to Magalhães a few years later.
 
May 2017
194
Monterrey
You say pretty much but as opposed to 100% sure. So before 1300 would you 100% rule out the possibility that any group for example from Africa, Europe , Asia or the Middle East ended up in North or South America? As for North America ill include NE Canada but also the east or west coast of the modern USA or South America.
We can make it to Mars today, but that doesn't really mean anything. Likewise, the colonization of America's didn't start until the powers that were could make the trip reliably and consistently.
 
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Tulius

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We can make it to Mars today, but that doesn't really mean anything. Likewise, the colonization of America's didn't start until the powers that were could make the trip reliably and consistently.
The colonization of America, by the Europeans, begun in 1492, with the first voyage by Columbus, and was heavily increased with the second voyage in 1493. From there it never stopped.
 
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Futurist

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Before the 13th Century, did any Groups establish lands or contacts in North or South America? This could from example the Roman Empire, Persian Empire, or any Dynasty from China , or any groups folks can think of.
The Vikings?