Before the advent of Zionism and Arab nationalism, Jews and Palestinians lived in pea

May 2017
183
Virginia
#11
I've heard thinking along these lines before on the internet and to be honest it always struck me as slightly antisemitic (not that I believe anyone in the thread is). The reason for this is it puts all the responsibility for current negative Jewish-Islamic/Arab relations on the shoulders of the Jews. It neglects that most Jews are Zionists to a certain degree and that the hope of a return to the Jewish homeland was a dream that many kept alive for centuries. It also neglects the fact that most Jews in Israel are Middle-Eastern Jews (Mizrahi) that were forced to flee or were expelled from Arab countries after the creation of Israel. Finally, it assumes that Jews and Arabs or Muslims in general always had good relations which is ahistorical nonsense. There were numerous massacres of Jews in the Arab world and in general they were treated as second-class citizens as dhimmis and forced to live under discriminatory laws and a culture that looked down upon them. While there is definitely legitimate criticism of the Israeli government and certain right wing/nationalist groups in Israel, I believe a lot of it comes down to the fact that a dhimmi people have their own country in the Middle-East. It basically boils down to "Things were so great before those people we controlled got their own country and we,of course, were the rulers".
 
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Feb 2013
6,724
#12
Read the Quran, Muhammad makes it quite clear how he feels about the Jewish people and their treatment of his people. There has been enmity between these two groups of people since before Islam existed.
By that logic "His blood be on us and our children" and "You Jews serve your father Satan, father of Lies" means that Christians are only true Christians when they kill Jews for being baby-eating Christ-Killers.
 

starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
3,830
Connecticut
#13
It basically boils down to "Things were so great before those people we controlled got their own country and we,of course, were the rulers".
The arabs had a problem with european jews coming in with their zionist ideology. The "dhimmis" weren't the driving force behind the Israeli state and didn't run it. And the arabs, especially the Palestinians, see themselves as the oppressed--by jews from the outside.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,316
#14
What population anywhere in the world would welcome foreigners coming to your town with the expressed design of forming their own sovereign state? Who refused to employ any 'native' who once they bought land would never sell it back to a 'native'.

The Zionist were foreigners. People from outside coming to Palestine with the aim of forming their own Jewish State. The Idea of 'transfer' the removal of the Native population by hook or by crook, had been part of Zionist thinking from the beginning. Denying the local population employment, and never ever selling land back to them. were ideas formed in the very early day of the Zionist Movement.

Under the British mandate, the Zionists insisted on higher pay for Jews employed by the mandate authority and favourable discrimination in hiring. They opposed representative government for Palestine. All concessions by the authority, reclaiming of wasteland, minerals extraction, electricity projects were granted to Jews.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,316
#15
. It neglects that most Jews are Zionists to a certain degree and that the hope of a return to the Jewish homeland was a dream that many kept alive for centuries.
They why did so many Jews choose to migrate to the Americas rather than Palestine? When they had a choice it was a not a popular destination.
 
Jun 2012
7,067
Malaysia
#16
Yup propaganda it is. Truly that warrior prophet was the author of jihad.
Islam was founded that way indeed. Killing people can never promote peaceful existence with other cultures like the Jews and those pagans who were also brutally killed by early muslims under the leadership of their warrior leader.
These are essentially your own personal opinions, bro, without much credible evidence backing them up. And I just can't help noticing that you hv been trying to pass them off as absolute undeniable fact, by continuously repeating them, ad nauseum & ad infinitum.
 
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Dec 2015
2,512
USA
#17
I wouldn't go so far as to say that Jews and Muslims lived in perfect peace and harmony before the establishment of Israel, but it's also a severe understatement in saying that it's an instigating factor in their relationship.

After the fall of Jerusalem and Alexandria, cities like Cordoba, Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo, and Istanbul would be the main centers of Judaism and Jewish thought throughout most of pre-modern history, especially as more Jews fled Spain, France, and England from pogroms to outright expulsion from the realms. Jews overall did have it easier living in Muslim polities than Christian ones despite being second-class citizens in both societies, in that they weren't as limited in their choice of vocations and could hold political office depending on where and when they were living at the time. There's accounts of persecutions of course, such as the Granada Massacre in 1066, as well being sequestered away in ghettos, but nothing like Spain's entire expulsion of the Jewish population, or the repeated physical violence most Jews would experience in Western Europe.
 
Mar 2012
18,030
In the bag of ecstatic squirt
#19
These are essentially your own personal opinions, bro, without much credible evidence backing them up. And I just can't help noticing that you hv been trying to pass them off as absolute undeniable fact, by continuously repeating them, ad nauseum & ad infinitum.
then I will show you the evidence directly from the Koran:

[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers
http://www.submission.ws/equran/reader/#epubcfi(/6/2[titlepage]!/4/1:0)

Do you realize how that verse in that book gives the discretion and authority to people like jihadist to execute the killing? It is very clear, that one may kill those who wage war against them. Fact:)