Before the advent of Zionism and Arab nationalism, Jews and Palestinians lived in pea

Mar 2012
18,030
In the bag of ecstatic squirt
^I am not discounting that cultures really intend certain protective measures to protect themselves. But discretionary power of a believer to destroy the life of another person on the basis of perceiving that such person is doing harm on him, gives the right to kill the color of dictates of belief. I don't know of you censoring my perception on the basis of the specific words as written in the Koran, besides that that is just an example of other verses which gives the believer the authority and discretion to kill as written in that book.
 
May 2017
183
Virginia
They why did so many Jews choose to migrate to the Americas rather than Palestine? When they had a choice it was a not a popular destination.
Well, most Jews who immigrated to America did so before the creation of Israel. Though there was of course Antisemitism in America in the 1800s/early 1900s, it was a pretty good place to be a Jew overall. Certainly better than Europe or the Middle-East to be sure. Why go to a desert region ruled by the Ottomans or Mandate system when you can go to a democratic country with freedom of religion and where you can become a citizen who can vote.
 
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pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,784
Well, most Jews who immigrated to America did so before the creation of Israel. Though there was of course Antisemitism in America in the 1800s/early 1900s, it was a pretty good place to be a Jew overall. Certainly better than Europe or the Middle-East to be sure. Why go to a desert region ruled by the Ottomans or Mandate system when you can go to a democratic country with freedom of religion and where you can become a citizen who can vote.
you said.

. It neglects that most Jews are Zionists to a certain degree and that the hope of a return to the Jewish homeland was a dream that many kept alive for centuries.
the dream to return to homeland, well if it's convenient and offers a good standard of living.

If Jews were echoing to go elsewhere maybe the "Jewish Homeland" isn't a thing they were feeling.
 
Jul 2010
1,374
N/A
Lots of people dream of returning to their homeland. I'll bet you my last dollar I can go and find you a Greek person who is near enough a centenarian who still wants to live in Constantinople one day.

The difference between Greece and Israel is that most people have accepted their fate and that the "grand idea" to go back and live in Constaninople was destroyed when the allies decided not to march on to Constantinople after World War I.

The problem seems to be the fact that most Jewish people still haven't given up hope of a united Jerusalem like we have of ever returning the Patriarch of Constantinople to his rightful home. I could be as much of a religious zealot as the average Zionist Jew, I simply chose not to be. Irredentism is not unfamiliar to me.
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,978
USA
Lots of people dream of returning to their homeland. I'll bet you my last dollar I can go and find you a Greek person who is near enough a centenarian who still wants to live in Constantinople one day.

The difference between Greece and Israel is that most people have accepted their fate and that the "grand idea" to go back and live in Constaninople was destroyed when the allies decided not to march on to Constantinople after World War I.

The problem seems to be the fact that most Jewish people still haven't given up hope of a united Jerusalem like we have of ever returning the Patriarch of Constantinople to his rightful home. I could be as much of a religious zealot as the average Zionist Jew, I simply chose not to be. Irredentism is not unfamiliar to me.


The Roman Empire fell, the British lost the American colonies, the Ottoman Empire fell, the Soviet Union fell apart, and so on and so forth. Lands change hands over time. Ottoman Muslims suffered at the hands of European Christians and vs versa, neither group holds a moral edge over the other. For that matter, Jews and Muslims have a history of tolerance and intolerance.

The way you use the term Rightful home though is something that we all can not agree on. For example being I am of Italian and Scottish Background, I can make a claim that any place in the world once belonging to Italians or Scots is my homeland.

For that matter one can bring forth the view that no piece of land inherently belongs to one based on their skin color or religion. No man can enforce another to accept that a piece of land in our world is the historic homeland of a certain group. I would not as a Catholic, agree that Israel is the homeland of the Jews. And that is the issue at hand here, free countries like the USA are open to anyone. Now at the same time I do think its possible to have a Jewish or religious state that is open to everyone. I think most Jewish people in todays world want peace and equialty throughout the world and I think they would welcome non Jews to immigrate to Israel.
 
Jul 2010
1,374
N/A
The Roman Empire fell, the British lost the American colonies, the Ottoman Empire fell, the Soviet Union fell apart, and so on and so forth. Lands change hands over time. Ottoman Muslims suffered at the hands of European Christians and vs versa, neither group holds a moral edge over the other. For that matter, Jews and Muslims have a history of tolerance and intolerance.

The way you use the term Rightful home though is something that we all can not agree on. For example being I am of Italian and Scottish Background, I can make a claim that any place in the world once belonging to Italians or Scots is my homeland.

For that matter one can bring forth the view that no piece of land inherently belongs to one based on their skin color or religion. No man can enforce another to accept that a piece of land in our world is the historic homeland of a certain group. I would not as a Catholic, agree that Israel is the homeland of the Jews. And that is the issue at hand here, free countries like the USA are open to anyone. Now at the same time I do think its possible to have a Jewish or religious state that is open to everyone. I think most Jewish people in todays world want peace and equialty throughout the world and I think they would welcome non Jews to immigrate to Israel.


You seem to suggest that I was referring to all Greek people or myself. In fact I was talking about the desiccation of the Agia Sophia.


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