Being allly with Italy

Sep 2019
50
Turkey
Being allly with Italy was a great mistake for Nazis . They lost all colonies in Africa against Britain and French troops . Then they tried to defeat Greece and they've couldn't even make it . And finally with the campaign of Italy they lost all Sicily . in all of them Nazis had to sent troops to the Italians for help . And for the understand the term of fascist Italy and their foreign policy you should definitely read Kont Galeazzo Ciano's book The Ciano diaries .
 

Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,957
Iowa USA
Being allly with Italy was a great mistake for Nazis . They lost all colonies in Africa against Britain and French troops . Then they tried to defeat Greece and they've couldn't even make it . And finally with the campaign of Italy they lost all Sicily . in all of them Nazis had to sent troops to the Italians for help . And for the understand the term of fascist Italy and their foreign policy you should definitely read Kont Galeazzo Ciano's book The Ciano diaries .
Maybe Italy was not a true ally as much as a "safety valve" for Germany in 1940.

If the May offensive in France was not decisive Italy could be a broker of a cease fire and possible "second Munich", as Mussolini was acclaimed in UK after Munich.
 
Jan 2013
1,019
Toronto, Canada
Italy didn't help the Nazis, but it didn't really hurt them either - they only sent a handful of divisions to Africa and the Italian campaign tied down more Allied forces than German troops.
 

Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,957
Iowa USA
Italy didn't help the Nazis, but it didn't really hurt them either - they only sent a handful of divisions to Africa and the Italian campaign tied down more Allied forces than German troops.
Mussolini helped greatly occupying Yugoslavia, and some of the best Italian larger formations (brigades, even maybe divisions) went to the Eastern Front.

As you say, N. Africa didn't divert much for Germany, and it can be argued that in early '44 Italian front was a resource "hole" for the Allies, rather than the usual thinking about Italy as a liability.
 
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Sep 2019
50
Turkey
Mussolini helped greatly occupying Yugoslavia, and some of the best Italian larger formations (brigades, even maybe divisions) went to the Eastern Front.

As you say, N. Africa didn't divert much for Germany, and it can be argued that in early '44 Italian front was a resource "hole" for the Allies, rather than the usual thinking about Italy as a liability.
what about graziani can we say he is good general apart from all of this . ( actually I don't think so cause he cost lost of many and men against omer muhtar at africa ) but some people accept him as a hero .
 
Sep 2019
182
Slovenia
It is probably true that Italy was more of a burden for Germany than a helpful ally. Germany intervened in Balkans because of war between Italy and Greece, where Italians were losing. They lost with this important time needed for the war against USSR. And in 1943 Italy changed sides. Germany had to open a new front in Italy with allies. In Yugoslavia Italians left most of their arms to partisans.
 

Kotromanic

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,957
Iowa USA
It is probably true that Italy was more of a burden for Germany than a helpful ally. Germany intervened in Balkans because of war between Italy and Greece, where Italians were losing. They lost with this important time needed for the war against USSR. And in 1943 Italy changed sides. Germany had to open a new front in Italy with allies. In Yugoslavia Italians left most of their arms to partisans.
I imagine that in Montenegro the windfall of munitions to the Partisans was the most decisive.

Given that Germany was obligated to bring the Greek war to a conclusion, up until the surrender the Italians were a substitute for German manpower in the Balkans. In a counterfactual scenario in which Greece isn't attacked by the Italians won't the British do precisely what they did at Salonika in '15? Ignore the Greek neutrality and attempt to resupply the SU through the Black Sea?
 
Sep 2019
182
Slovenia
Well Germany was against the Italian war against Greece. They wanted Greece to stay just neutral. Turkey stayed neutral for example. SU can be supplied also from Asia. Pro-German Iraq ( in WW1 part of Ottoman empire ) was occupied by the British in May 1941 after some years of independence.

During World War II, Iraqi regime of Regent 'Abd al-Ilah was overthrown in 1941 by the Golden Square officers, headed by Rashid Ali. The short lived pro-Nazi government of Iraq was defeated in May 1941 by the allied forces (with local Assyrian and Kurdish help) in Anglo-Iraqi War. Iraq was later used as a base for allied attacks on Vichy-French held Mandate of Syria and support for the Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran.

 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,015
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Hitler wanted Italy as an ally since he considered Mussolini his model [and in the beginning a kind of idol to follow]. History would have said that about this Adolf was wrong ...
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,015
Italy, Lago Maggiore
In Italy this picture can be used only for historical purposes and it's accepted because it puts the "hated King" under a bad light [and overall it shows that he was shorter than Mussolini!!!].

visita-di-hitler-a-roma-mussolini.png

Humor apart, Hitler seemed to be fascinated by the Fascist leader.