Bias in the judical system

Jul 2016
7,353
USA
#31
Sure, we can all agree that's how nature is. But that doesn't make it a good thing. Handicapped people would starve to death in a "natural" mesolithic world, but we generally don't want that to happen now.
Nature doesn't care what you want, if you want to change something then it requires action. If you want to protect the crippled infant antelope from the pride of lions, then step in and save it.

If you want to protect biologically unintelligent people (<85 IQ), the poor, those ignorant of the law and court legalities, the confused elderly, or anyone else you think doesn't have the ability to have a fair trial, then you kick up your money and pay for it. Donate money to foundations that provide quality legal assistance pro bono to the "disenfranchised."
 
Mar 2018
322
UK
#32
I already pay for the justice system in my country (not the US) through my taxes. I'd add that I pay more than my fair share already. I want that money to be used in a way that I deem fair, so when I think the justice system in my country isn't doing its job, I complain.
 
Jul 2016
7,353
USA
#33
I already pay for the justice system in my country (not the US) through my taxes. I'd add that I pay more than my fair share already. I want that money to be used in a way that I deem fair, so when I think the justice system in my country isn't doing its job, I complain.
Your taxes aren't charity, they're designed around keeping the basic systems functional and nothing more. If you want charity because the only acceptable level of justice is of perfection, then you're going to pay for it, one way or another.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
12,394
#34
I don't remember the exact statistics so as to speak with authority, but generally speaking, Larkin is correct here. Plea bargains exert a toxic force on the American justice system; they save time, money, and prosecutor face in return for crushing at least some innocent people in the bargain (note: link is to a PDF download).
well it seems to be happening right now to various people in the ongoing "russian investigation" (where so far people have been charged for things unrelated to Russia and where none of the defendants so far is black) where most everyone is using pleas.... this is bit reminiscent of the heresy trials, where it was "recommended" to admit to being a heretic and recant

but that is obviously not a "bias" (since it is used as we see against the powerful as well as the weak) but rather a systemic error that gets exploited
 
Jul 2016
7,353
USA
#35
No legal system is perfect. Claiming that the system is biased against the poor because they cannot afford the very best is true, and laughably naive as well. Life isn't fair. Not fair that a poor person who is utterly ignorant of the law gets stuck with a free public defender who doesn't really care, is overworked, and just plans on plea bargaining down in order to save time and energy on someone who will almost surely be found guilty anyway. Not fair when individuals with IQs under 85 (representing about 10% of total population) are basically incapable of almost of performing nearly any modern profession. Not fair when innocent children die of Leukemia while turds grow old. Not fair when the crippled infant antelope gets eaten alive by the lion while others aren't even stalked.

Life isn't fair. Deal with it, stop complaining.
 

Fox

Ad Honorem
Oct 2011
3,817
Korea
#36
well it seems to be happening right now to various people in the ongoing "russian investigation" (where so far people have been charged for things unrelated to Russia and where none of the defendants so far is black) where most everyone is using pleas.... this is bit reminiscent of the heresy trials, where it was "recommended" to admit to being a heretic and recant

but that is obviously not a "bias" (since it is used as we see against the powerful as well as the weak) but rather a systemic error that gets exploited
That's the point, though: if one acknowledges the potential for exploitation of plea bargains, then one acknowledges the influence participants in the justice system like prosecutors have over plea bargains, and once that influence is acknowledged, there is a clear mechanism which can -- not necessarily will in any particular case, but can -- transmute existing biases into uneven results. And if prosecutors are able to exert enough force to scare wealthy, well-informed men into accepting plea bargains, how is a poor fellow who is legally illiterate going to fare? There exist statistics which suggest African Americans end up facing jail time as a result of plea bargains more often than European Americans accused of similar crimes. It is not my inclination to naively take those statistics at face value and suggest, "Well, there is a disparity, so that must be bias and only bias." There are a number of factors which could lead to these results, and bias is only one of them. But given the immense injustice involved in incarcerating an innocent person, seeking to maximally reduce the impact of bias in the system is a noble endeavor.

Life is not fair, but when it comes to the justice system, we would be both wise and compassionate to continually strive to asymptotically approach fairness.
 
Likes: Ichon

larkin

Ad Honorem
Sep 2009
3,698
#37
Nature doesn't care what you want, if you want to change something then it requires action. If you want to protect the crippled infant antelope from the pride of lions, then step in and save it.

If you want to protect biologically unintelligent people (<85 IQ), the poor, those ignorant of the law and court legalities, the confused elderly, or anyone else you think doesn't have the ability to have a fair trial, then you kick up your money and pay for it. Donate money to foundations that provide quality legal assistance pro bono to the "disenfranchised."
So you are saying that the Constitution is meaningless. You may be right, but the Constitution was drawn up to protect all of us, not to allow for a willowing out of the population...Perhaps you might consider studying up on German history, 1923 to 1935
 
Jul 2016
7,353
USA
#38
So you are saying that the Constitution is meaningless. You may be right, but the Constitution was drawn up to protect all of us, not to allow for a willowing out of the population...Perhaps you might consider studying up on German history, 1923 to 1935
The Constitution? What does that have to do with Historum members complaining that they think its an unalienable human right to have identical privileges as the rich?

Everyone gets a lawyer, equal opportunity under the law, due process, etc. Nothing in the Constitution, or common sense, remotely suggests that everyone should get multiple top performing lawyers. That concept isn't "fair," its unrealistic nonsense.

Nice use of Godwin's Law, BTW.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
5,876
Spain
#40
The judicial system is corrupted as the Society, the State or the people... it is only a reflection of Society... The system is not interested to know the truh or to know who commited the crime... only to restore order and the appearance of tranquility so that people believe that justice has been done.
In USA we have cases and cases... as in Europe...Three Memphis (or if you want to do "justice" you only need to accuse three teenagers without money and living in down families ), the Guildforf Four, the Maguire Seven (or how to accuse innocent people to save your own unfitness), the Alcasser Two (or how to acusse two idiots tos save the real criminal)