Bizarre Pashtun Tradition of Bacha Bazi

Jul 2015
94
US
#1
Bacha Bazi (some sort of pedophilia) is a common and wide spread tradition among Afghans specially among Pashtun tribal men in southern Afghanistan. In this practice usually boys as young as 8 up to 18 are trained to dance in flirty feminine style to draw attention of sick older men. This kids have pimps who pays for their training, women clothing, make and singing lesson and collect the money from the potential costumers in Bacha Bazi parties. Each Bacha (young dancing boy) will be taken to bed for the night by an older man to provide sexual pleasure. Money is usually paid in advance.

Here is examples of this practice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5n1ps1duMs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaMOrqoMaw0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuqZq657-gA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiIXag9mBeQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u6dEMHX-Bo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NYTZU0MQSw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl87Ag11j_4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrWbTS20zf8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9gpSL6eZ6M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MpnpcCLvtM



and a couple of article about it when British soldiers stationed in southern Afghanistan encountered this taboo tradition among Pashtun men.


Afghanistan's dirty little secret


Afghanistan's dirty little secret - SFGate

State Department: Sexual Abuse of Boys on the Rise in Afghanistan

State Department: Sexual Abuse of Boys on the Rise in Afghanistan

I am just baffled to know our American troops let this continue in this backward culture.
 
Nov 2011
8,865
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
#3
There's a boy across the river
With a bottom like a peach
Alas, I cannot swim.

'Zachmi Dil, 'The Wounded Heart', Old Afghan marching song.
 
Jul 2015
66
India
#4
It is not bizarre. It was rather common in world history.

It's just pederasty and it was pretty much everywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

Judeo-Christian morality which spread far and wide in recent times is probably the reason for its decline.
If Judeao Christian morality has led decline of this so called 'common practise' how come Afghans who are most pious Muslim in entire Indian subcontinent have this practise while rest Indic Muslims and Hindus do not have it?

There was no such thing as bacha bazi in pre Islamic Afghanistan. It is result of Islamised Turks imposing this sick custom on Pashtuns. Islamic cultures were known for widespread pederasty afterall.

This post of Drona Bharadwaja sums it up.

http://historum.com/history/68979-why-does-pakistan-name-its-weapons-after-people-who-invaded-pakistan-21.html#post2241834?postcount=208
 
Apr 2012
1,683
India
#5
This post from Drona Bhardwaja would clear a lot of facts.


I don't think this is correct!

Bacha Bazi was indeed introduced during Islamic age. Xuanzang visited whom he called Afghans in Zhob as late as 7th century, he did not report such practices.Could you show me one reference to such practice amongst Afghans in pre Islamic times? Even biladuri did not report anything.

Such practices are first reported only in 12-13th century AD, after Islamization

Young "pearl like" slave boys are rewarded along with beautiful virgins in paradise according to holy quran

There will circulate among them [servant] boys [especially] for them, as if they were pearls well-protected.
Source(Quran 52.24)- Surat At-Tur - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

There will circulate among them young boys made eternal
source(Quran-56.17)- Surat Al-Waqi`ah - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

There will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them [as beautiful as] scattered pearls.
Source- Surat Al-'Insan - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????


Recently, ISIS justified pedophilia quoting these verses from quran

ISIS Fighters Can 'Enjoy Young Boys in the Absence of Women'

In the Hadiths of bukhari, considered most authentic by Muslims, Muhammad is shown sucking into the tongues of young children

Al-Adab al-Mufrad al-Bukhari 1183

It is related that Abu Hurayra said, "I never saw al-Hasan without my eyes overflowing with tears. That is because the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, went out one day and I found him in the mosque. He took my hand and I went along with him. He did not speak to me until we reached the market of Banu Qaynuqa. He walked around it and looked. Then he left and I left with him until we reached the mosque. He sat down and wrapped himself in his garment. Then he said, 'Where is the little one? Call the little one to me.' Hasan came running and jumped into his lap. Then he put his hand in his beard. Then the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, opened his mouth and put his tongue in his mouth. Then he said, O Allah, I love him, so love him and the one who loves him!'"
Musnad Ahmad 16245—

[Mua’wiya said]: I saw the prophet sucking on the tongue or the lips of Al-Hassan son of Ali, may the prayers of Allah be upon him. For no tongue or lips that the prophet sucked on will be tormented (by hell fire).
Sahih Al Bukhari 249-


The first child who was born in the Islamic Land (i.e. Medina) amongst the Emigrants, was `Abdullah bin Az-Zubair. They brought him to the Prophet. The Prophet took a date, and after chewing it, put its juice in his mouth. So the first thing that went into the child's stomach, was the saliva of the Prophet.
Source- Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar) - Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5 - Hadith

Of course, they are even more explicit Hadiths.


Muhammad lift up the shirts of his cousin Alis two boys, Hassan and Hussein, and kissed their genitals.
Al Hubeir by Ibn Hagar 60-61
"He (the prophet) put Hussein's legs apart and kissed his penis." #169 Al Nawawi v.2 p 42

Al Tabari p 127 Abdallah bin 'Adiy v.6 p. 49

Majma al-Zawa’id, Ali ibn Abu Bakr al-Haythami, 299/9 “I saw the Messenger of Allah pbuh spreading Husein’s legs apart and kissing his (little) penis.”
Abbasid Arabs recruited Turkish sexual slave boys called Ghilman. When the ghilman ghaznavids inturn Islamized Afghans, they introduced this custom into Pashtunwali. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times]When turkic people like khilji(ghilzai) assimilated into pashtuns, they also introduced these practices.[/FONT]The Turks took a lot of Afghan "bachas". Of course, khilji kept 4000 slave boys in his court.Khilji loved Malik kaffur the most and in the words of Ferishtah [FONT=Times New Roman,Times]"tied the sacred thread (zunnar) of his love in his own waist"

Other notable sex slaves include Malik maqbul [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times][FONT=Times New Roman,Times](slave of Feroz tughluq) [/FONT]and khusrau khan(slave of mubarak khilji).

PS-talking specifically of Afghanistan and Pashtuns

[/FONT]

It's just pederasty and it was pretty much everywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty
Never heard of it in Indian traditions, neither is or was evidently ever practiced.Your source is also silent on its prevalence in India.

It seem more like a problem of Judeo-Christian-Islamic world.
 
Last edited:
Jan 2015
955
EARTH
#6
If Judeao Christian morality has led decline of this so called 'common practise' how come Afghans who are most pious Muslim in entire Indian subcontinent have this practise while rest Indic Muslims and Hindus do not have it?
I talked about Judeo-Christian morality - not Abrahamic or Judeo-Islamic morality.

I do not know about India, but it was commonly observed across all the continents making my statement correct. It was pretty much everywhere.

In primitive North America, S.E Asia, Polynesia, Melanesia, Central America, E. Asia (China, Japan, Korea), Central Asia, Middle-East, Oceania, and Europe, etc...

That makes it pretty much everywhere.

The decline of the sexual cultures in E. Asia incl. that of pederasty in modern times and Europe post-Roman regions/era was definitely due to Judeo-Christian morality - that much is for sure. The great contrast in sexuality between 20th century China vs. post-Chinese era and post-Edo/Meiji period onwards are testaments to that effect.
Europeans and their derivatives have had to practice pederasty in secrecy ever since the post-Roman period/eras/regions to great social condemnation.
 
Last edited:
Nov 2011
8,865
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
#7
I talked about Judeo-Christian morality - not Abrahamic or Judeo-Islamic morality.

I do not know about India, but it was commonly observed across all the continents making my statement correct. It was pretty much everywhere.

In primitive North America, S.E Asia, Polynesia, Melanesia, Central America, E. Asia (China, Japan, Korea), Central Asia, Middle-East, Oceania, and Europe, etc...

That makes it pretty much everywhere.

The decline of the sexual cultures in E. Asia incl. that of pederasty in modern times and Europe post-Roman regions/era was definitely due to Judeo-Christian morality - that much is for sure. The great contrast in sexuality between 20th century China vs. post-Chinese era and post-Edo/Meiji period onwards are testaments to that effect.
Europeans and their derivatives have had to practice pederasty in secrecy ever since the post-Roman period/eras/regions to great social condemnation.
Are you unaware of the writings of Sir Richard Burton ( the 19thC explorer, not the 20thC actor) who exposed the network of homosexual brothels in India (nowadays modern Pakistan) together with prices and services offered and similar reporting on such activities in Damascus and the brisk trade in boys in Dar es Salaam and the Sudan?
Burton also translated the Kama Sutra and 1001 Nights and was the author of "A history of farting".
 
Jul 2015
66
India
#8
I talked about Judeo-Christian morality - not Abrahamic or Judeo-Islamic morality.

I do not know about India, but it was commonly observed across all the continents making my statement correct. It was pretty much everywhere.

In primitive North America, S.E Asia, Polynesia, Melanesia, Central America, E. Asia (China, Japan, Korea), Central Asia, Middle-East, Oceania, and Europe, etc...

That makes it pretty much everywhere.

The decline of the sexual cultures in E. Asia incl. that of pederasty in modern times and Europe post-Roman regions/era was definitely due to Judeo-Christian morality - that much is for sure. The great contrast in sexuality between 20th century China vs. post-Chinese era and post-Edo/Meiji period onwards are testaments to that effect.
Europeans and their derivatives have had to practice pederasty in secrecy ever since the post-Roman period/eras/regions to great social condemnation.
As Abhishek said, your own source is silent about Indian subcontinent and since I have read most ancient and pre Islamic Indian texts, I have never found this practise as something even tolerated. And India is not that small place to ignore it while asserting that pederasty was common everywhere.

Indian texts like Arthasastra impose harsh penalty for any act of sodomy while lesbians had to lose their fingers and one of worst forms of humiliation by sitting on donkeys with black face.

I agree that in East Asia which was a world full of practises non conforming to Christian world there has been massive change in attitude regarding sexuality with Western morality impacting the society at large.

It is to be noted that Buddhism could not make this change in East Asia. Mahayan Buddhism or rather its great philosophers like Vasubandhu and Asanga condemned almost all deviant acts like oral sex, sodomy( even between wife and husband) and lesbians to point that they regarded anyone doing any of these acts as being unworthy of being even a layman Buddhist forget about monks. In East Asia, even Buddhist monks in Japan indulged in same sex relationships at large. Buddhism failed to change East Asia.

Ironically, Asanga and Vasubandhu were from areas( modern day Peshawar) which today are home to Pashtun majority, people now infamous for bacha bazi.
 
Last edited:
Jan 2015
955
EARTH
#9
As Abhishek said, your own source is silent about Indian subcontinent and since I have read most ancient and pre Islamic Indian texts, I have never found this practise as something even tolerated. And India is not that small place to ignore it while asserting that pederasty was common everywhere.

Indian texts like Arthasastra impose harsh penalty for any act of sodomy while lesbians had to lose their fingers and one of worst forms of humiliation by sitting on donkeys with black face.

I agree that in East Asia which was a world full of practises non conforming to Christian world there has been massive change in attitude regarding sexuality with Western morality impacting the society at large.

It is to be noted that Buddhism could not make this change in East Asia. Mahayan Buddhism or rather its great philosophers like Vasubandhu and Asanga condemned almost all deviant acts like oral sex, sodomy( even between wife and husband) and lesbians to point that they regarded anyone doing any of these acts as being unworthy of being even a layman Buddhist forget about monks. In East Asia, even Buddhist monks in Japan indulged in same sex relationships at large. Buddhism failed to change East Asia.

Ironically, Asanga and Vasubandhu were from areas( modern day Peshawar) which today are home to Pashtun majority, people now infamous for bacha bazi.

I said pretty much everywhere. I make no claims for absolutely everywhere.
I do not know about India, so I will take your word for it. However, I have a few additional remarks to make.

The practice is still observed almost everywhere except for cultures in extremely cold areas near/in the Arctic Circle or pre-Islamic India as you've asserted.
Have you looked for non-IA tribal practices in various regions of India? Areas as close as Indochina had it. It would be odd that such practices suddenly stopped in tribals at the modern boundaries of India.

Islam condemns homosexuality as a sin, yet seems to allow pederasty. Thus, condemnation of homosexuality does not equal condemnation of pederasty. The Ottomans had capital punishment for homosexual activity and even pederasty, yet they frequently and commonly flouted the laws and engaged in these activities.

Critics of sodomy doesn't equate to the absence of the practice or even marginalization of the practice. To criticize it must mean the practice did in fact exist.
Athens started criticizing the practice in 5th century BC precisely due to the fact that the practice existed. Yet this does not mean Athens or Sparta did not engage in pederasty or homosexuality on a widespread scale. Criticism of the acts is no great evidence for the absence of such acts.
 
Last edited:
Jul 2015
66
India
#10
I said pretty much everywhere. I make no claims for absolutely everywhere.
I do not know about India, so I will take your word for it. However, I have a few additional remarks to make.

The practice is still observed almost everywhere except for cultures in extremely cold areas near/in the Arctic Circle or pre-Islamic India as you've asserted.
Have you looked for non-IA tribal practices in various regions of India? Areas as close as Indochina had it. It would be odd that such practices suddenly stopped in tribals at the modern boundaries of India.

Islam condemns homosexuality as a sin, yet seems to allow pederasty. Thus, condemnation of homosexuality does not equal condemnation of pederasty. The Ottomans had capital punishment for homosexual activity and even pederasty, yet they frequently flouted the laws and engaged in these activities.

Critics of sodomy doesn't equate to the absence of the practice. To criticize it must mean the practice did in fact exist.
Athens started criticizing the practice in 5th century BC precisely due to the fact that the practice existed. Yet this does not mean Athens or Sparta did not engage in pederasty or homosexuality. Criticism of the acts is no great evidence for the absence of such acts.
The point is that we have no evidence that the practise was either widespread or liked. Some people might have done it in secret just like adultery. I do not know much about non IA tribal cultures so I can not comment on that .

No deviant act is non existent. What matters is extent it is widespread and accepted or tolerated in societies. Child molestation takes place everywhere, its extent among Pashtuns or Islamic world is very large from evidences we have.
 

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