Brazil Presidential Elections

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,711
Lisbon, Portugal
BTW all these artist and o



You are basing your opinion on biased sources who clearly have not been telling the whole story.
Tell me a source that is unbiased. All the videos I saw about Bolsonaro is from his unedited declarations that he made and his own political program. I don't believe in mainstream media. I don't know why you guys assume like a buy their narrative. You just need to live in China for a while to discover that what most Western mainstream media tells about the country is extremely inaccurate and unfair.

By the way, his crude homophobia is the least of his problems. The worst of his problems it's his economic agenda and his alliance with evangelical forces.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
12,276
By the way, his crude homophobia is the least of his problems. The worst of his problems it's his economic agenda .
That would actually be an interesting discussion.... One which the media have failed to present, focusing as they are on their silly accusations and demonization

So what is his economic agenda (and why do you think its a problem) ?
 
Oct 2015
4,487
Matosinhos Portugal
robto . Why? Do gays bother you that much?

Because of the facist education and religion they gave me in the 1960s.
Attention I am not a facist, I was born in his time, I can have facist ideas, for example to thieves cut off hands or blind, murderers the death penalty to rapists castrare etc.etc. But I know how to respect those who are against my ideas.


In portuguese.
Por causa da educação facista e da religião que me deram nos anos 60.
Atênção eu não sou facista,nasci no tempo dele,posso ter ideias facistas,por exemplo aos ladrões cortar as mãos ou os cegar,aos assassinos a pena de morte aos violadores os castrare etc.etc. Mas sei respeitar os que são contra ás minhas ideias.
 
Feb 2012
3,765
Portugal
Tell me a source that is unbiased. All the videos I saw about Bolsonaro is from his unedited declarations that he made and his own political program. I don't believe in mainstream media. I don't know why you guys assume like a buy their narrative. You just need to live in China for a while to discover that what most Western mainstream media tells about the country is extremely inaccurate and unfair.

By the way, his crude homophobia is the least of his problems. The worst of his problems it's his economic agenda and his alliance with evangelical forces.
You have Bolsonaro in a video with known members of the gay community presenting his view and on the other side the recycled citation about his son that you and the mainstream media repeat to exhaustion, it looks like you are the one buying the media.
An outsider from mainstream politics with a conservative reformist agenda and backed by evangelicals is certainly more than the socialist-catholic-establishment in Portugal can take.
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,711
Lisbon, Portugal
You have Bolsonaro in a video with known members of the gay community presenting his view and on the other side the recycled citation about his son that you and the mainstream media repeat to exhaustion, it looks like you are the one buying the media.
I cannot watch the video. My VPN doesn't work and Youtube is blocked in China. Can you provide another link to watch the video? Sorry, but it's difficult to access to western based-information on the internet if you live in China...

An outsider from mainstream politics with a conservative reformist agenda and backed by evangelicals is certainly more than the socialist-catholic-establishment in Portugal can take.
Why so? Just because something is alternative, doesn't mean it's automatically good, particularly if the candidate is just as enamored with the big capital as any other candidate. That makes him a fake alternative....
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,711
Lisbon, Portugal
That would actually be an interesting discussion.... One which the media have failed to present, focusing as they are on their silly accusations and demonization

So what is his economic agenda (and why do you think its a problem) ?
First of all, his economic policies are unclear and lack real-life measures - something very typical from populist politicians, both from the left and the right. In fact he very much confessed being ignorant on economic matters.

Second, he has deferred to the economist Paulo Guedes, who is now under investigation for fraud in businesses with state pension funds. He is a graduate of the Chicago school, which is renowned for emphasizing the power of the free market. He embraces an extreme degree of liberalism never seen before in Brazil, such as privatization of all state-owned companies and an unfair, non-progressive taxation scheme where almost everyone would pay the same level of tax.

This new economic policies is a major shift of the previous economic policies of Brazil, named "social developmentarism", enabled by Lula and the PT. Although the social-developmentalist approach gave very mixed results, it is irrefutable that it has managed to combine economic growth and stability, while reducing poverty. This was, however, in the context of favorable commodity prices.
Guedes strategy seems to focus solely on a type of economic growth that does not necessarily mean socioeconomic development. The 1970s Chilean model of economic growth, which Guedes has praised, contributed to increasing social inequality there. If addressing Brazil’s great economic recession, rising crime and a 12% unemployment rate does not sound complicated enough, the country also needs a plan for rebuilding social cohesion. Extreme liberal economic reforms will exacerbate the social differences, it will create a more negative socioeconomic environment in the long run.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
12,276
First of all, his economic policies are unclear and lack real-life measures - something very typical from populist politicians, both from the left and the right. In fact he very much confessed being ignorant on economic matters.

Second, he has deferred to the economist Paulo Guedes, who is now under investigation for fraud in businesses with state pension funds. He is a graduate of the Chicago school, which is renowned for emphasizing the power of the free market. He embraces an extreme degree of liberalism never seen before in Brazil, such as privatization of all state-owned companies and an unfair, non-progressive taxation scheme where almost everyone would pay the same level of tax.

This new economic policies is a major shift of the previous economic policies of Brazil, named "social developmentarism", enabled by Lula and the PT. Although the social-developmentalist approach gave very mixed results, it is irrefutable that it has managed to combine economic growth and stability, while reducing poverty. This was, however, in the context of favorable commodity prices.
Guedes strategy seems to focus solely on a type of economic growth that does not necessarily mean socioeconomic development. The 1970s Chilean model of economic growth, which Guedes has praised, contributed to increasing social inequality there. If addressing Brazil’s great economic recession, rising crime and a 12% unemployment rate does not sound complicated enough, the country also needs a plan for rebuilding social cohesion. Extreme liberal economic reforms will exacerbate the social differences, it will create a more negative socioeconomic environment in the long run.
Well the raw facts are that GDP/capita in chile is currently some 50% above that of Brazil (and the same for Argentina).. .So the PT economic policies have clearly failed in comparison to what happened in Chile....

The Flat tax actually has a number of advantages btw... And as soon as there is significant growth, "inequalities" increase because there is no known way to spread exactly equally (whatever that would mean) each extra dollar. And I am not sure what social cohesion means and how one would measure it. Is there high social cohesion in North Korea for example ?

In any case its not clear either way.... The policies you say he advocates are not guaranteed winners, nor losers.... Some of them have given positive effects in some places, others have failed... It is certainly something open to discussion and there are a variety of opinions.
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
4,750
DC
He doesn't have a gay son, he was speaking hypothetically.

According to the organisation Grupo Gay de Bahia, which monitors LGBT hate crimes, there were a shocking 387 murders in 2017, an increase of 30% compared to 2016. While Brazil has a very high crime rate, the group says these murders were directly linked to homophobia or transphobia. This resurgence of homophobic crimes are connected with the spread and influence of Evangelical Christian organizations (mostly coming from America) in many societies across Brazil. There have been autos-de-fé where gays are burned alive in the middle of the street while the culprits recite the Holy Bible...
Of course, Brazil as a traditionally Catholic and Romance-speaking country was always homophobic, but the intrusion of fundamentalist American churches are giving homophobia a very brand new ideological militancy that sometimes will translate into acts of violence. That religious violence does not only directs against gays, Afro-Brazilian religions are also being targeted by those evangelical christian zealots.
Bolsonaro belongs to the camp of those evangelicals, it's his voting base, just like Erdogan in Turkey when it come to his relations with Islamists.
I have noticed a lot of statistics about hate crimes everywhere these days, I would not doubt them but I would love to know the police reports and witness reports on this, someone being killed/attacked while belonging to a "group" get sometimes classified as "hate crime" without anyone following the case to see if that is what actually happened.

This happens here a lot as well.
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
4,750
DC
Second, he has deferred to the economist Paulo Guedes, who is now under investigation for fraud in businesses with state pension funds. He is a graduate of the Chicago school, which is renowned for emphasizing the power of the free market. He embraces an extreme degree of liberalism never seen before in Brazil, such as privatization of all state-owned companies and an unfair, non-progressive taxation scheme where almost everyone would pay the same level of tax.
unfair as an opinion ? or unfair is an unequal in numbers/percentages?

If we remove deductions (i.e. subsidy) from everything and go by income alone, x% of total income will be paying x% of taxes; I guess it is unfair because it does not allow people to get subsidies?
 

Decembrist

Ad Honorem
Mar 2013
2,636
the Nile to the Euphrates
I cannot watch the video. My VPN doesn't work and Youtube is blocked in China. Can you provide another link to watch the video? Sorry, but it's difficult to access to western based-information on the internet if you live in China...



Why so? Just because something is alternative, doesn't mean it's automatically good, particularly if the candidate is just as enamored with the big capital as any other candidate. That makes him a fake alternative....
Do you use WeChat?
 

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