Brazil Presidential Elections

Aug 2013
32
There
But in principle, discussion of politics and gender politics should not be held in school and in principle teaching should be apolitical (regardless of the personal opinions of individual teachers who are of course free to have whatever political ideas they like as long as they dont try to indoctrinate children)
Here in Brazil, discussion of politics is welcome in schools, if many times unavoidable. A common way to see a teacher as "apolitical" would be one that avoid partisanship in his discussions, classes etc.

Discussion of the topic "gender" is somewhere between existing and encouraged, in a way of teaching tolerance and recognition of homossexuals, transsexuals etc. It varies between public and private spheres, as it would be less likely, as you would expect, to see this topic with the same emphasis in a catholic school and a progessive private one, while in publics it's more on a teacher to teacher basis I think. The flak against this discussion in schools (and everywhere, really) is coming from conservatives, notably evangelicals, by calling it "gender ideology" in the first place, demeaning its use as scientific discussion, and then vilifying the teachers that touch it as "ideologues".

I'm aware that "indoctrination" exists, but it's really a problem veeery down on the list of problems overall faced in the brazilian educational system, and really doesn't have the scale promoted by its critics. Actually, everyone worried about our education's quality is a critic of indoctrination, the difference is the emphasis and its centrality as a problem. Up until now, it was treated inside the institutions. A good director would manage this between fathers and teachers. Now what we are seeing is surveillance by teenagers of teachers inside classrooms, during classes, for outsiders (cops or members of Bolsonaro's crew when they pass the law?). What this been doing is raising a climate of denunciation.

How do you think a democratic system can tackle the problem of partisan teachers? I think this is an exportable program only to China.

What are his flagship propositions on crime ?
I'm not aware of him having specific propositions, as a concise federal public safety plan. My sayings are based on his pronouncements long before and during his campaign.

It's a perspective of crime as if dealing with pests and using pest control. Extermination(?). Everything between the pest and its extermination is an obstacle, like a chair and a table in your house. Criminals are, then, unalleged for a legal process and human rights. I believe this is one of the perspectives behind Bolsonaro's defense of cops' and citizens' vigilante groups and Rio's militias and the overall militarization of law enforcement (a military task force is managing Rio's law enforcement as of today, for example, with little to no results), also his praise for torture and similar means of dealing with suspects.

So, basically, he promises little to no oversights on extrajudicial killings and criminal law as revenge. Also, open gun laws (not clear in which statute this will operate, as far as I know) as a mean to reduce violence. That's why I said before I'm curious about how our democratic institutions are going to behave, and if he'll find a middle ground between them and his discourse. His recent indication of federal judge Moro (responsible for the first degree condemnation of Lula and with a controversial record in this case) as Justice Minister may signal this, who knows.
 
Aug 2013
32
There
If there are laws against fascists why shouldn't there be against Communists and revolutionary socialists?
I understand the prohibition of nazi symbolism and fascist parties are due to the war itself and post-war foreign policy of appeaseent between allies in the context of denazification of germany, not that I'm 70% sure. Of course, here, the communist parties (in plural, really) were banned until the end of the dictatorship and may have less years operating legally than ilegally since the founding of PCB in 1922. After it, maybe was hard to call on the limitation of one's right to associate?

But really, communist and extreme-left parties shifted from marxism-leninism to overall reformism and social justice via fiscal and economic issues, and, more recently, cultural issues. There's one or two marxist-leninist and maoist parties/organizations, but they're not significant. I think to treat them again as terrorists would be an approximation with the dictatorship's narrative, when the concept of terrorism encompassed dissidents. To legalize fascist ones, well, I think that's a good debate.

The money the US spent in covert operations against socialism in South America could have been better employed promoting its rise to power and then just let it fail.
We could argue that US' foreign policy in South America was (is?) one to keep its dependency? Not detracting the role of brazilians, sure.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
12,781
How do you think a democratic system can tackle the problem of partisan teachers? I think this is an exportable program only to China.
Its a tricky one , that is for sure... In Europe teachers tend to be to the left or even extreme left.

Probably the only way to deal with that is to hold them accountable and fine them / fire them if there are documented cases of attempts to indoctrinate... In most countries a majority of teachers is paid for with public money. Why should your or anyone's taxes be used to indoctrinate your children .....

(this works as no teacher in -say- France would dare to question politically correct mantras ..... they are too afraid to be ostracized.....)
 
Feb 2012
3,888
Portugal
But really, communist and extreme-left parties shifted from marxism-leninism to overall reformism and social justice via fiscal and economic issues, and, more recently, cultural issues.
It is different in Brazil then. Around here they get almost 1/5 of votes (communists + socialist revolutionaries), represent mostly the upper middle class of public servants and now retirees, but are still attached to anti-capitalism, behave as a hate group against some segments of the population and try to promote class strugle which seems to be extinct in modern societies. They basicaly try to block and reverse any reform and promote the dangerous doctrine of hinder and even destroy the economy while expanding the government.
 
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holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,668
Vilnius, Lithuania
I think you misunderstand how the brains of "these people" work... It is really simple:

homophobia: baaaaad, baaaaaad
imperialism: baaad, baaaaad

thus imperialism is of course responsible for homophobia (and homophobia for imperialism) and other things which are also baaaaaad baaaaad

likewise because Bolsonaro (or Putin or Trump etc...) is baaad baaad then he must be homophobic, racist, mysoginistic, anti semitic etc.... because these are all baaaad baaaad things... and all baaaad baaaad things are related
Homophobia or anti semitism ,however, are tolerable then leftists celebrate their beloved Middle Eastern queries such as Iranians, Palestinians etc.
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,903
Lisbon, Portugal
Homophobia or anti semitism ,however, are tolerable then leftists celebrate their beloved Middle Eastern queries such as Iranians, Palestinians etc.
So, homophobia and antisemitism can give a pass according to you, but leftists "loving" Middle Easterners such as "Iranians and Palestinians" is the worst thing? So, that means that you don't like Middle Easterners (because according to you they don't deserve love from "leftists"), and possibly you are ok with hating homosexuals and Jewish people? - that completely makes me assume your political orientation very clearly. Otherwise, how any kind of hate against a group of people can ever be "tolerable" in any circumstances?
Am I wrong with that conclusion?
 
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holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,668
Vilnius, Lithuania
So, homophobia and antisemitism can give a pass according to you, but leftists "loving" Middle Easterners such as "Iranians and Palestinians" is the worst thing? So, that means that you don't like Middle Easterners (because according to you they don't deserve love from "leftists"), and possibly you are ok with hating homosexuals and Jewish people? - that completely makes me assume your political orientation very clearly. Otherwise, how any kind of hate against a group of people can ever be "tolerable" in any circumstances?
Am I wrong with that conclusion?
No need to twist my words. I simply meant to say, what leftists strongly criticize anti-Semitism or homophobia among right-wingers in the West but turn a blind eye on similar manifestations among anti-Israel terrorists for example ( like, who cares if hypothetical Palestinian fighter hang gays with his own hands, when he is fighting against Zionist Apartheid Israel state ).
 
Jun 2016
1,665
England, 200 yards from Wales
Its a tricky one , that is for sure... In Europe teachers tend to be to the left or even extreme left.

Probably the only way to deal with that is to hold them accountable and fine them / fire them if there are documented cases of attempts to indoctrinate... In most countries a majority of teachers is paid for with public money. Why should your or anyone's taxes be used to indoctrinate your children .....

(this works as no teacher in -say- France would dare to question politically correct mantras ..... they are too afraid to be ostracized.....)
Sure, indoctrination is not a good thing, though whether some subjects (like history) can be taught without the teacher's personal attitude being apparent I doubt (though that may not amount to indoctrination).
Of course other sorts of indoctrination then are just as bad - religion ('faith' schools) or patriotism/nationalism (flags and pledges perhaps)?
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
12,781
Sure, indoctrination is not a good thing, though whether some subjects (like history) can be taught without the teacher's personal attitude being apparent I doubt (though that may not amount to indoctrination).
Of course other sorts of indoctrination then are just as bad - religion ('faith' schools) or patriotism/nationalism (flags and pledges perhaps)?
Yes religion is one form of indoctrination which should (and normally is in secular states) be banned from public schools... Of course if it is a private religious schools then its a different matter.

Patriotism is a different matter though....
 

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