Brazil Presidential Elections

Aug 2010
16,022
Welsh Marches
Children are also indocrinated on the basis of secular ideologies, I see religion (in western countries) as being far from the most dangerous offender in this regard, since there are such strong secularist and indeed anti-religious counter-currents counter-currents; it is simply not possible to exclude 'indoctrination' of one kind or another from education, and the term is almost always selectively applied to forms of indoctrination that the particular speaker happens to oppose! The development of prroper critical thought is the essential thing, accompanied by debate between people with different outlooks, but things have got worse rather than bettter in that regard in schools and universities during my lifetime.
 
Likes: johnminnitt

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,359
Portugal
Indoctrination is a relevant part of the function in public school. Public schools are a tool of the state. They are a tool of the public strategy of education. So the Public school system pretends, as it is natural, to transmit to the students the current social paradigm of the state. That is a way of socialization and so also of indoctrination.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,218
Indoctrination is a relevant part of the function in public school. Public schools are a tool of the state. They are a tool of the public strategy of education. So the Public school system pretends, as it is natural, to transmit to the students the current social paradigm of the state. That is a way of socialization and so also of indoctrination.
There is a difference between teaching civic duties and presenting partisan views of history or politics as if they were fact. Its bad enough that the media now thinks they are propaganda outlets with a duty to teach the populace rightink , without the schools also being used as a conduit for politically correct nonsense and righthink
 
Jun 2016
1,805
England, 200 yards from Wales
Yes religion is one form of indoctrination which should (and normally is in secular states) be banned from public schools... Of course if it is a private religious schools then its a different matter.

Patriotism is a different matter though....
So maybe we could have private political schools? Conservative, communist or liberal schools?

And is patriotism so wholly different? The idea that one's primary duty is to one's country is not completely beyond question, might some not think it is to one's religion, or to one's class?
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,359
Portugal
There is a difference between teaching civic duties and presenting partisan views of history or politics as if they were fact. Its bad enough that the media now thinks they are propaganda outlets with a duty to teach the populace rightink , without the schools also being used as a conduit for politically correct nonsense and righthink
Teaching civic duties, citizenship, and formatting the individual with values and expected social behaviours is a form of indoctrination, i.e. it is a way to doctrine, that is why public school is so important in any regime, either dictatorial or democratic. The public school is also a way to transmit the regime values.

But in my previous post I didn’t said a word about “and presenting partisan views of history or politics as if they were fact” neither directly or indirectly, as I also didn’t talk about “politically correct nonsense”. The school system can be used to transmit any values from the political spectrum from extreme left to extreme right. From respect to “politically correct nonsense” to the ones that reject political correctness. Even the posture of people like me that try to help the students to gain critical thinking are also indoctrinators. The indoctrinators aren’t only the ones that teach things that we don’t agree.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,218
I think people are confusing things re indoctrination. Any country (state) has a set of core values that are shared across a broad range of the political spectrum: for example, democracy, tolerance, patriotism, women's rights etc.... Teaching and explaining these core values in school is "normal".

What is not normal is when teachers push their own ideas (which may or may not align with the country's core values) on the children. I dont think anyone would like to have teachers explaining to children that Adolf was in fact a great guy who was greatly misunderstood... yet some teachers are pushing for example , the line that Stalin, well what a dude.... Also teaching should really be about facts.. Take geography... The teacher may provide facts:

e.g our country has 3 large rivers.. their length is xyz..... the cities they cross are zyx....they are important for agriculture which uses n m3 of water from these rivers

or he may start to push his own ideas such as

river 1 is the most beautiful (or ugliest) in the world
river 2 has been polluted by selfless capitalits who are out to destroy the world by exploiting its natural resources and its inhabitants (or river 2 is endangered by crazy eco warriors who understand nothing about a modern society's needs and behave like terrorists)`
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,985
Lisbon, Portugal
No need to twist my words. I simply meant to say, what leftists strongly criticize anti-Semitism or homophobia among right-wingers in the West but turn a blind eye on similar manifestations among anti-Israel terrorists for example ( like, who cares if hypothetical Palestinian fighter hang gays with his own hands, when he is fighting against Zionist Apartheid Israel state ).
Ok, so what's really the issue?
First of all, who said the left turns the blind eye on gay rights in places such as Iran? One of the few memories that I have regarding LGBT rights was about a story of a gay couple that was about to be executed in Iran in the year 2000, there was a public campaign among many gay rights activists and the main "extreme" left-wing political party called "left bloc".
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,218
So it looks like Haddad , the presidential candidate from the PT is going to be prosecuted for corruption charges dating back to a 2012 election campaign where it appears his campaing illegally received about 1 mio euros

This is the candidate that the european and US media were rooting for.... Pathetic...
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,218
Ok, so what's really the issue?
First of all, who said the left turns the blind eye on gay rights in places such as Iran? One of the few memories that I have regarding LGBT rights was about a story of a gay couple that was about to be executed in Iran in the year 2000, there was a public campaign among many gay rights activists and the main "extreme" left-wing political party called "left bloc".
Having turned "muslims" into their new proletariat, the left in general (though those who do not have blinders on, such as some of the french socialists, actually do... but they are then violentely attacked from within their own camp) cannot criticize Islam (because that would be islamophobic) so it remains mostly silent on abuses... its telling that you had to go back 18 years to find a case where there were actually doing something, and even then it seems to have been mostly gay right activisits... but today gay right activists are mostly either silent about or even supporting of everything having to do with Islam because of the silly concept of Intersectionality ... that leads them to support the very people who want them dead

Intersectionality is a concept often used in critical theories to describe the ways in which oppressive institutions (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, xenophobia, classism, etc.) are interconnected and cannot be examined separately from one another.


Intersectionality is an analytic framework that attempts to identify how interlocking systems of power impact those who are most marginalized in society. Intersectionality considers that various forms of social stratification, such as class, race, sexual orientation, age, religion, creed, disability and gender, do not exist separately from each other but are interwoven together. While the theory began as an exploration of the oppression of women of color within society, today the analysis is potentially applied to all social categories (including social identities usually seen as dominant when considered independently).
 
Jun 2012
2,965
Brazil
So it looks like Haddad , the presidential candidate from the PT is going to be prosecuted for corruption charges dating back to a 2012 election campaign where it appears his campaing illegally received about 1 mio euros

This is the candidate that the european and US media were rooting for.... Pathetic...
Selective posting? or do you really tried to read about brazilian elections, because if you tried, you would know that,
Bolsonaro is also being prosecuted, in his case for using funds to buy voters, in reality, he was and is being prosecuted in more than 30 different judicial actions, not only him but Paulo Guedes, his
economics guru, Onix Lorenzoni the chief of transition, five of his future ministers are being prosecuted, this is to show that different that personal agendas can interpret Brazilian elections trying to bring it to his own worldviews believes, things here are never so simple, but not everyone gets it.
 
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